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Science and Technology#USTE: All immortal? (Transhumanism and philosophy)

general scientific debate. Presentations of new technologies (not directly related to renewable energy or biofuels or other themes developed in other sub forums).
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Christophe
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#USTE: All immortal? (Transhumanism and philosophy)

Unread Messageby Christophe » 05/02/15, 09:49

Last night on France2, part of the #UTSE emission = An Evening at the Eiffel Tower was dedicated to immortality (coming soon?) Man: http://www.france2.fr/emissions/un-soir ... /117034575

The classic questions of unequal access to technology were discussed ... some have argued that it would be mobile: very expensive at first but very quickly accessible to the public ... (the cost of DNA séquensage was divided by 3 000 000 10 in years after a worker)

After the questions are perhaps more philosophical and societal (when and how will we choose to die? How to control the breeding of mankind? Who will be right and there will be no right (outside the consideration of price ...)? towards gerontocracy?)

Personally this is the question of personal enrichment that worries me most: our society is already becoming more unequal: living longer, the rich will remain rich longer ...

In short the whole of society should be reviewed ... and rearrange!

Complete the following topics:
Science-and-Technology / jellyfish-a-immortal-yet-more-strong-as-the-tardigrade-t12494.html
Health-pollution-prevention / the-mystery-of-old-how live-plus-old t10885.html
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Unread Messageby Ahmed » 05/02/15, 19:10

The question for the perpetuation of inequalities, which you dash, O Christophe, Is not really dependent on this (very) hypothetical immortality, since economic, relational and cultural inequalities currently transmitted by inheritance.

It is not this aspect that seems the most problematic, but rather a point which is a blind spot of the critique of modernity, never touched (except maybe in some way by René Girard) Is that any positive progress * technology is offset by a negative progress more powerful.
This last point can be explained trivial: it is always easier to destroy than to build, killing than saving.
It follows from the fact that all that would increase in large proportions duration of life, would in larger yet to destroy.

In reality, all fallacious discourse based on several assumptions absurd:
The first is an illusion of our psyche that is unable to perceive the transitional nature of the period in which we are immersed and which led him to infer a linear extension of the trend.
This submission to the spirit of the time led to the refusal of death, because it is totally contrary to him and oppose him lie bitter that only a strong denial can keep away: the infinite accumulation of value has, by definition, is meaningless if it is subject to limitation.
In a sense, since the existence became inconsistent, devoid of purpose and ideals, remains only the fact of existence and the hope that this emptiness found at one time or another, his solution: eternity does while addressing the need of an infinite time ...
There is yet another psychic illusion that pushes us to search both personal immortality and the collective suicide, the first being the conscious and the other not; Yet the two are intertwined.

* Since this noun is neutral.
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Unread Messageby bidouille23 » 06/02/15, 01:09

In other words you'll have beautiful immortal bodies when referring to the popular sayings that tell us:

when it is C .. that's life ....

it may be long ....


Might as well ask the questions before and realize that, as with much of the technology is unnecessary background ... instead of stuck a patch over evil without seeking the cause ....


But self destruction actually forces the solution is not bad ...
and Why sweat with pesticides all that stuff eh;) ... Indeed beautiful gateway to the negative progress (due to less time current world temple of consumption) as you say Ahmed ...

This is THE Millennium sales radius, vampires fangs were out for a long time before we aillons even heard of all this .... There are leaves that door just waiting to fill it .. .

Serious when I see stuff like this that makes me freak when you see the other twisted from North Korean woman, once eternal what's going on! ?????
: Cry:

Everything depends again from the perspective of the observer and that we listen;) ... and why ....
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Unread Messageby Ahmed » 06/02/15, 09:02

The logic at work in this fantasy is that of an ever greater relief the constraints that apply to humans.
Recall that the success achieved in this area apply only to a tiny proportion of men and they only work at the expense of the rest of humanity.

Even within these privileged who have less to fear the vagaries of life and who have technical / administrative remedies to address them, the number of people who have the greatest difficulty to endure a lifetime (in duration, however "normal "!) without addictive crutches (neuroleptics, legal drugs or not, TV, video games, Michel Drucker, Stéphane Bern ...) is extraordinarily high given the" progress "claimed enriched by our companies.
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Unread Messageby sen-no-sen » 06/02/15, 09:16

The transhumanist ideology is primarily a symptom technologism, In that it corresponds to a contamination by the biology technology.
Indeed the scalable capacity of the human body are not fast enough to allow adaptation of this one to sudden changes brought by industrial development.
Historically have found the same phenomenon at the international level with communism.
Communism was not an anti-capitalism as some would believe idealist, but a sort of "software" allowing the conversion of nations very underdeveloped towards industrialization, leaving capitalism spread in countries that have already achieved a certain threshold of development.
Of course, once enough industrialized communist countries, the communist ideology sees replace capitalism ...

Transhumanism as ideology tends to convert the old biological system to a new system of hybrid life, this one should lead to posthumanism or biological life disappears in favor of the non-biological life through smart controllers or algorithmic entity.
Most futurists think that if this hyper-technology is pushing too far future humanity could be replaced by a cloud consists of thinking entities moving in huge supercomputers colonizing the universe! ...

The big question, which transhumanists can not answer concerns the existence in the human sense.
Why exist if one escapes the biological determinism?
Indeed most human behaviors that lead us to live are related to the satisfaction things simple: eat, drink, sleep, reproduce, etc ... if such processes are no longer necessary, why exist, and for what purpose ?
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Unread Messageby Ahmed » 06/02/15, 19:06

On communism (or socialism "real"), it is indeed, as you say, a capitalism of catching up, kind of "upgrade", far from the ideal of some, as well as the foil of those who condemned it.
I see less transhumanism in a catch-up desire a continuation of gradual transformation of the whole of nature and therefore of human nature.
The men ordered at first to adapt to the machine, are being increasingly denied their human dimension by changing one: the abdication can not, logically, be partial.
Regarding your last paragraph, the efforts of men out of their precarious condition, and that would lead to their development (which requires a minimum of comfort) focused on the means of action, in so doing, they quickly forgot the original purpose . This inversion implies that the prolongation of life becomes an end in itself, since the goal is more within existence.
If this fantasy was to happen, no doubt that suicide would end this contradiction: what is infinite time without content?

Another way of talking about these things, as you marked, would be to go further in this perverse logic and radically eliminate the living, in which case the conflict would be removed along with the subject!
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Unread Messageby Ahmed » 07/02/15, 10:39

Another way to consider this business, it would be better to say that fantasy would be (and this is not in contradiction with what has been discussed above, rather a synthesis) a projection of what builds our society: pure quantity devoid of quality.

In the eternity of time would correspond to the absolute emptiness ... realization paroxysmal motor of modernity.

To overcoming the constraints that were, if not the reality, at least the individual ideal, replaces a collective overtaking signs the death of the subject.
For as clearly saw Sen-no-senThe subject can not stand (if that term can be used!) By renouncing itself, by objectifying to blend in a world where humans excluded humans.
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Unread Messageby sen-no-sen » 07/02/15, 11:39

It is possible that the Posthuman works ...
Indeed, for certainly exclusive but growing number of scientists *, the true entity of this world would not be human, poor animal in any 150 000 years, but memes.

Indeed, and this is an undeniable fact, it is the Memes who "created" men.
Our species is indeed a mix of natural (genetic) and cultural (memetic), otherwise we would never have evolved to the stage of the primate hominid ...
From this point of view then we would memetic as vectors, enabling through our genetic perfecting those below ...
Technological development allows through its ultra accelerated development provide the Memes a much more effective niches than that offered by the frail human body.

The fundamental question is to ask this question: Who are we really?
As indicated P.GuillemantWithout a search deeper about the nature of consciousness are we condemned to transhumanism!


Ahmed wrote:

Another way to consider this business, it would be better to say that fantasy would be (and this is not in contradiction with what has been discussed above, rather a synthesis) a projection of what builds our society: pure quantity devoid of quality.


Transhumanists are mostly "Materialistic believers", Being that they do not believe in God nor in the past, but they deeply desire.
And as one is never better served than by oneself, heaven, God and consort will then be made of all parts, to meet this ideal.
There is also a transhumanist church is proof that its still the same Memes who has work in the world, yet a new form of Messianism **!





*Richard Dawkins et Susan Blackmore to name a few.
** Sociologically this may reflect the fact that most transhumanists are of Jewish origin and they are strongly influenced culturally by the Jewish messianism ....
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Unread Messageby Ahmed » 07/02/15, 13:52

If orientation transhumanism is well established, the question of the possibility of this option remains.
How could this perspective be consistent with the valuation of the abstract value?
I think a society model of change is a prerequisite, because the contradictions of the current paradigm can not be overcome in the short time remaining ...

Although systems of domination have existed earlier than the abstract value, but I do not see a new form capable of meeting the specifications of the implications of transhumanist mutation, except to eliminate, directly or indirectly, most of humanity.
If it was unfortunately the case, the Hitler project appear as a futuristic vision that will ultimately failed by its excess of anticipation ...
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Unread Messageby Ahmed » 07/02/15, 13:52

If orientation transhumanism is well established, the question of the possibility of this option remains.
How could this perspective be consistent with the valuation of the abstract value?
I think a society model of change is a prerequisite, because the contradictions of the current paradigm can not be overcome in the short time remaining ...

Although systems of domination have existed earlier than the abstract value, but I do not see a new form capable of meeting the specifications of the implications of transhumanist mutation, except to eliminate, directly or indirectly, most of humanity.
If it was unfortunately the case, the Hitler project appear as a futuristic vision that will ultimately failed by its excess of anticipation ...
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