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New transport: innovations, engines, pollution, technologies, policies, organization ...The hydrogen car RE: The future?

Transport and new transport: energy, pollution, engine innovations, concept car, hybrid vehicles, prototypes, pollution control, emission standards, tax. not individual transport modes: transport, organization, carsharing or carpooling. Transport without or with less oil.
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chatelot16
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Re: RE hydrogen car: the future?

Unread Messageby chatelot16 » 20/04/18, 19:46

when eric dupont will explain the cost of his liquid nitrogen machine we can compare with the fuel cell

the fuel cell exists ... we can see the price of what is available ... I find the fuel cell too expensive for me, but it is usable for some since it exists

if eric dupont invented a cost-effective cold engine it would also be profitable to use hydrogen in liquid form ... by making energy with both its cold and its fuel quality

alas, I am afraid that the energetic valorization of the cold is too heavy and too expensive to be put in a vehicle!

if the energetic valorization of the cold of a liquefied gas must have a first use it will be for the gasification of the methane in the ports or one receives methane liquid by the methanier ... so much that it does not do in this case or it's the least difficult it will not be done in a vehicle!

there is another energy which is forgotten in hydrogen: in the case where it is stored compressed at 200 or 300 bar: the energy of the compressed gas! instead of stretching stupidly in a pressure regulator, if one relaxes in a compressed gas engine one gains a not negligible power, of the order of 10% of the power supplied by the hydrogen like fuel ... and a gas engine tablet is quite simple

a compressed air only engine has difficulty finding the necessary heat in the ambient air so as not to cool too much and lose its efficiency ... a compressed gas engine that powers a heat engine or a fuel cell does not have this problem because it takes advantage of the lost heat of this engine

such a use of the energy of the compressed gas makes it possible to compensate for part of the gas compression expenditure
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Eric DUPONT
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Re: RE hydrogen car: the future?

Unread Messageby Eric DUPONT » 21/04/18, 08:40

the cost of a liquid nitrogen engine with nitrogen reheating with hydrogen is as follows. a two-stage 300 bar motor and 20 bar are required to release the compressed nitrogen which has been heated to 500 ° C. An exchanger for heating the nitrogen to 500 ° C with the fuel. An exchanger for heating liquid nitrogen with compressed nitrogen coming out of the engine. a small compressor has 300 bar to compress the cold nitrogen coming out of the exchanger.

Compared to an engine where it is the water that heats the nitrogen, with the fuel, the engine is simpler because there is no water to recover and reheat, the exchanger to reheat the nitrogen Liquid as well as the compressor for compressing the cold nitrogen are smaller since the consumption of liquid nitrogen is less important.

it is not useful with the hydrogen to recover the energy of the expansion of the hydrogen, in a way we can not recover the cold of the relaxation to cool the nitrogen which leaves the engine and which will pass in the exchanger before the compression.

For liquid hydrogen in a vehicle, it's better not to think about it


the problem is not the cost of the nitrogen engine, which is probably less expensive than the fuel cell and is more expensive than a heat engine, but it is the cost of hydrogen at the pump that is plaguing the budjet. at the limit we can replace the hydrogen with Ch4.
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Leo Maximus
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Re: RE hydrogen car: the future?

Unread Messageby Leo Maximus » 08/06/18, 19:22

South of Paris, the Engie group has just inaugurated a hydrogen station at the heart of the Rungis International Market:

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Re: RE hydrogen car: the future?

Unread Messageby Remundo » 09/06/18, 14:07

Eric Dupont wrote:the problem is not the cost of the nitrogen engine, which is probably less expensive than the fuel cell and is more expensive than a heat engine, but it is the cost of hydrogen at the pump that is plaguing the budjet. at the limit we can replace the hydrogen with Ch4.

absolutely,

and even CH3OH which has the advantage of being liquid ... hydrocarbons with 1 or 2 carbon atoms are much easier to use.
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Re: RE hydrogen car: the future?

Unread Messageby Eric DUPONT » 09/06/18, 19:51

the car has hydrogen is dependent on platinum which is more expensive than gold at best it takes 3 times more than in a catalytic converter, but there are not yet and if so, the price of platinum will be worth 3 times more expensive.
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Re: RE hydrogen car: the future?

Unread Messageby Remundo » 09/06/18, 22:02

the car H2 is a humbug. Hypertechnology, an energy chasm, a captive clientele, very inadequate supply infrastructures.

What is needed is an electricity-dominant hybrid at an affordable price. Basically a good specification would be:
* car 4 5 places, 1000 kg, not too much frontal area
* 15-20 kWh of battery to make 100 km in electric
* generator 3 40 cylinders kW (50 ch)
* power 75 kW (100 ch) electric, with possibility of boost to 150 kW when the generator supports the batteries
* simple car: not too many gadgets and electronics

In addition the engine should be more gasoline, and accept 85 ethanol.

And at the same time; we must strengthen the electricity mix in renewable energy, and also the mix of fuels in renewable liquids: methanol, ethanol, biodiesel ...
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Re: RE hydrogen car: the future?

Unread Messageby gildas » 10/06/18, 11:59

Video of an 1993 motorcycle that only works at the H2 with a car battery.
It is said that one can travel 500km with 1 liter of water.
It takes 6 Kw to break down 1 liter of water. That sounds real, a battery of 50 Ah could break down 0,1 liter of water by putting an hour ...



On the other hand the bike does not seem to go fast ..
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Re: RE hydrogen car: the future?

Unread Messageby Ahmed » 10/06/18, 12:14

Since in the final analysis it is a question of using electrical energy, it would be more logical to connect the battery or batteries to an electric motor ... This video suggests that the energy of the hydrogen contained in the water would be greater than the starting energy, but it is only an imperfect conversion.
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Re: RE hydrogen car: the future?

Unread Messageby xboxman4 » 10/06/18, 12:15

Remundo wrote:the car H2 is a humbug. Hypertechnology, an energy chasm, a captive clientele, very inadequate supply infrastructures.

What is needed is an electricity-dominant hybrid at an affordable price. Basically a good specification would be:
* car 4 5 places, 1000 kg, not too much frontal area
* 15-20 kWh of battery to make 100 km in electric
* generator 3 40 cylinders kW (50 ch)
* power 75 kW (100 ch) electric, with possibility of boost to 150 kW when the generator supports the batteries
* simple car: not too many gadgets and electronics

In addition the engine should be more gasoline, and accept 85 ethanol.

And at the same time; we must strengthen the electricity mix in renewable energy, and also the mix of fuels in renewable liquids: methanol, ethanol, biodiesel ...


And you think that the lithium battery of the VE does not have one of fogging? Future shortage, rising price of lithium, problematic recycling, shitty cycling ... In short all the opposite of hydrogen precisely.

The H2 is an energy vector: it is an inexhaustible source, it is easy to produce (an electrolysers is not a complex system for industrial), can be produced from any source of energy . Current storage systems have improved (carbon fiber, high pressure, light weight, safety) and allow virtually unlimited cycling. I join you on the fuel cell, but a lot of research is under way to replace platinum with other materials (just like batteries where we want to replace lithium).
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xboxman4
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Re: RE hydrogen car: the future?

Unread Messageby xboxman4 » 10/06/18, 12:31

Tomorrow's vehicle should be:

The lightest possible: and that passes by the technologies of points: carbon / alu, 3D computer assistance, mutualisation of certain equipments
The most "simple possible": a single screen / panel that displays all the information, automation of certain tasks ...
The most economical: hybridization for a very near future, with lithium titanate battery, atikson gasoline engine / E85, auto box, water injection system (why not? Pantone), brake regeneration + magnetic suspension. Aero Dynamics
The most durable: Japanese reliability, quality materials, long life.
Recyclable: exit the plastic - use of more noble materials, wood, hemp for bumper, the rigor of recycled plastic for some parts
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