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Water injection in engines: montages and experimentsBe together ! Overview

Edits and changes to engines, experiences, findings and ideas.
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Misterloxo
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Unread Messageby Misterloxo » 20/11/04, 15:00

In fact Adrien,

I knew nothing about body ... (http://songe.org/carrosserie.html)


I congratulate you ! It's really impressive the work that you have done on this combi :P

But there was nothing, no casiment driven with doped water or a traditional Pantone. And those equipped do not broadcast almost no fear? We will not do anything like that ...


I understand that you think it is not moving fast enough but I can guarantee you that there 2 years very few people came to the site, very few people knew the Pantone.
Today, we do a lot of visits and many visits come from search engines. C that people know Pantone (and other energy systems) and do research on it.
There is even talk of Pantone on the radio!

The revolution has begun supply facilities (I say for at least 20 years!) And I think she is not ready to stop :D .

We can not stop thanks to the information revolution: Internet, digital for all ....

1 Point
If industrial take over the project in the near future, it will have served for nothing


I think that on the contrary will be a victory. Even if I do not profit. The important thing is the environment! It urgeeee!
And even if it's even the industrialists who are putting in the pocket. For who has the means to faires and changes to mass produce millions of vehicles equipped with such systems?


2 Point
It would take a maximum of people install the system on their vehicle, even if it is limited by our means of handymen, it is already huge!


For me, the point will be a consequence 1 point 2

A+
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Superform
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Unread Messageby Superform » 20/11/04, 15:46

I understand too the olive concerns when we see the ZX project:
h over 1000 working


when we know that it was on their personal time, that the hourly SMIC is 8,5 € (16 € for the employer in all), if they are stung by indus ca it still 8500 € stolen, 16000 € saved on R & D (a trifle for manufacturers, okay)

So I think it's okay to be a little paranoid ...
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Christophe
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Unread Messageby Christophe » 20/11/04, 16:17

I agree with 2 posts MisterLoxo (by the way what's your name we are now intimate;)) ... Adrien I personally feel that you consider the industry as enemis ... Why ? Only with them and means they come really do some thing ... It just takes the "convincing" and be stronger than Lobbie who are above them! (Obviously industrialists seeking to block the system I also considers enemis or obstacles to overcome at least ...)

If manufacturers are developing the system or a variant (with or without us) it will be a victory for the environment and future generations ... even if no direct impact all our lives poura we say it was all of us who were at the origin of this. Know that I have not earned a penny since I "worked" on it ... obviously I do not count the hours spent on econo, the zx or dissemination of information ... Sometimes I wonder if any it's worth ... I'd probably much better (physically) in bE as an engineer to do the classic subway / work / sleep ... but here there is something inside me that tells me : persevere it's worth ... I know no or AC comes and I hope not wrong .... but one certainty is that without you and your support I will not very long ...

He who fights to lose ... He who does not fight has already lost!

Then if we get there (all together), economically, this will most probably precedence in the history of capitalism: for once the interests of the majority come before those of a minority that has the power and exploits that majority !

Ca and this is priceless!

When the lack of evidence on vehicles I think you will do well to take a turn on Quanthomme ...
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Unread Messageby Christophe » 20/11/04, 16:18

Superform wrote:
h over 1000 working


1000 hours it was all inclusive: 3 + versions electronic assembly etc etc ... All to try to understand and master the system ... The conclusion is that we are still far from mastering and we can not go beyond our means perso ..
This does not mean changing a car with basic editing will not take away from the 1000h ... ..

Few tens of hours at most ...
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Adrien
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Unread Messageby Adrien » 20/11/04, 23:23

- I read re-read Quanthomme, I know that there are cars with water doping ... But there is a minority! Even 0,01% of cars in France! (And yet I see large)

- Yes indeed I consider industrial as enemies. For them money is more valuable than the life of a living being (there are not that men on earth!).

Which industrialists do you consider as "friends"?

What is the difference between manufacturers and lobbies?

- I think it would be much more interesting than the people finally moves her ass. Where is the world? I do not think the future "sustainable" is located in the industrial. We must rely on ourselves, not on those who have money and who aspires to be more.

Good night, Adrien
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Misterloxo
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Unread Messageby Misterloxo » 21/11/04, 12:20

Which industrialists do you consider as "friends"?

I think it's not really an issue but industrial friends rather than "face" industry, it would be "easy" to use them to reach a generalization of such systems.

What is the difference between manufacturers and lobbies?

I'm no expert but lobbies are interest groups made common industrialists, big bosses, politicians ... (well not all) and who pressure by all means (men influences policies, economic pressures , partnership, sponsorship ...) he have to rely THEIR interest.
So some manufacturers are under the thumb of some lobbies. For example, I believe that the oil lobby has more that influencing auto industry that they do not go too fast in developing means drastically reducing vehicle consumption.

- I think it would be much more interesting than the people finally moves her ass. Where is the world? I do not think the future "sustainable" is located in the industrial. We must rely on ourselves, not on those who have money and who aspires to be more.

If I extrapolate a bit, you sermons the Bastille 2004 release lol :D

Good on this, ciao
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Joe Flachy
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Unread Messageby Joe Flachy » 21/11/04, 16:10

Hello everyone, I just found this forum by searching the documentation for a handyman wanting to test the Pantone on a 2CV. I seek to form a folder, as complete as possible on the issue. Here are the links I currently possesses (in addition to yours, thank you!):

www.quanthomme.com
contrepouvoirecologie.chez.tiscali.fr
www.e-2cv.com
www.geet.com
www.jlnlabs.org

It is not, in fact, nowhere blueprint (except changing the lawnmower ...) malgrés the number of changes made ...

I agree that the Pantone change must remain "in the shadows" for the moment: the dissemination to the public will not be made by manufacturers that do not interest (oil lobbies), and setting up a legal structure seems to me the best way to attract the sharks ...
If this method works corectement, it seems he will have no trouble developing. It just assume good will on the part of handymen, in ways that they affect the most vehicles possible.
Pooling plans pourait have the opposite effect to the developement of the process: actuelement, each solves the problems in its own way, there are so many changes of DIY where eventually some interesting inventions.

See you soon !
;-) ;-) Joe Flachy
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Blasil10
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Unread Messageby Blasil10 » 21/11/04, 19:38

Hello !!
Joined recently, I am "in the east". "Professional Builder" .. ;-)). But not "scientific" .. interested in the Pantone system and others in recent years, a used generator sets has already benefited, now a car will be eligible, for a while, the time to try several solutions .. reported results.
For the proposed union:
Nice, but not obvious ...
1 / positive reaction
2 / A My feeling lots of good people with multiple skills who are already "on the idea," which have already applied or not, but hesitate to make themselves known.
Staying in a genre framework "ecologically humanitarian cause" seems a given reality all opositions "money": angry: that will unfold gradually with the development of this type of union.
3 / // In this spirit can also: association 1901 law?
Financing: Donations. Motivation: In that same spirit, everyone understands that
this system (as alternatives), causes a reduction or elimination of traffic pollution or other engines not need to explain why ... everyone to understand that the problem of profitability of invested money becomes secondary.
4 / Action plan: as many have already done: go ahead and share experiences.
** The evolution of all will be with the evolution of each one, to each one of knowing how to break one's own limits.

Optimistic, but we must be realistic.
I share much of the idea of ​​the project and Christophe Adrien reactions seen on the forum. good evening everyone
J-Cl
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Adrien
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Unread Messageby Adrien » 21/11/04, 20:32

Which industrialists do you consider as "friends"?

I think it's not really an issue but industrial friends rather than "face" industry, it would be "easy" to use them to reach a generalization of such systems.

What is the difference between manufacturers and lobbies?

I'm no expert but lobbies are interest groups made common industrialists, big bosses, politicians ... (well not all) and who pressure by all means (men influences policies, economic pressures , partnership, sponsorship ...) he have to rely THEIR interest.
So some manufacturers are under the thumb of some lobbies. For example, I believe that the oil lobby has more that influencing auto industry that they do not go too fast in developing means drastically reducing vehicle consumption.


So if I understand correctly, the word "lobby" goes with industrial, but the reverse is not necessarily true?

- I think it would be much more interesting than the people finally moves her ass. Where is the world? I do not think the future "sustainable" is located in the industrial. We must rely on ourselves, not on those who have money and who aspires to be more.

If I extrapolate a bit, you sermons the Bastille 2004 release lol :D


No, I just dream of a different life.


I have just returned from Pontorson where there was an organic lounge. 3 cars with water doping were presented, all 3 rolled!

The red express renault presented on Quant'homme,
a 205 which was amended last week,
a Traffic that has already traveled 5 or 7000 (I remember more) Km since the change.

For consomations she dropped about 30% (they still do not know for 205 as it is recent).

They use a glow plug to heat water bubbler when the engine is cold.

Sincerely,
Adrien.
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