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Water injection in engines: montages and experimentsBe together ! Overview

Edits and changes to engines, experiences, findings and ideas.
fred
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Unread Messageby fred » 18/11/04, 23:18

: Lol:
It is very interesting to read you and see you react.
It is comforting to see that you are all of good will, and that menes or not to make mistakes, the group eventually cut corners and ultimately everyone learns from everyone. : Rolleyes:
If the will to good things takes over and becomes the theme of the project, the results will not be slow to be felt. : Rolleyes:
Christophe Adrian, Virgil (to name a few) by allowing everyone to question, formulate its own goals, you participate actively in the elaboration of the project. :)
Thank you: unsure:
Let us not forget that it is easier to destroy than to build, but with good will and good reviews, the boundaries define themselves and we feel that everyone has a stone bring to the edifice.
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Christophe
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Unread Messageby Christophe » 19/11/04, 10:44

Adrian wrote:Sorry not to be in your height.

Some people need all the time of their vehicle, and can have very long to them. How could they install the system by taking the risk of being able to use their car?

And then is not every engineer.

For height and level of engi ... thou misunderstands most ingé are unable to achieve something with their hands .... and above all refuse to reach into "the camboui" ... This is shame but that's cela..Et after all they were not trained for this and that's a shame ...

Personally as an engineer ... I consider not having to ask a subordinate I'm not sure I even realize (although my junior knows perform much better than me) ... it can be for why I am not considered a "good engineer" ???

For the use of the vehicle that is true but the olive tree well done on his car "service" and enjoying weend vacances..C'est this also the risk to take!
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fred
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Unread Messageby fred » 19/11/04, 12:21

econology wrote:For the use of the vehicle that is true but the olive tree well done on his car "service" and enjoying weend vacances..C'est this also the risk to take!

Incidentally, Christophe and Olivier, would you be willing to spend some time documenting in more detail mounting on the ZX. As an application, a sort walk to follow would perhaps be welcome to allow for other (which we love risk) not having to reinvent the wheel.
For example what about this electronic management, what are the latest improvements which have been made you.
This would be a good platform for me to start a new kind of retrofitting 'experienced'.
We all would gain time and that time could be devoted to development.
Moreover 20% of you already consume - and pollute even -.
I know it still represents a significant amount of work for both of you but many motivated users could benefit.
Remember, I read your TFE, schedules ... and I appreciate the work. :)
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Unread Messageby Christophe » 19/11/04, 14:04

Personally I have nothing against shows Zx by olive against bcp is more suspicious ... and he is right now somewhere ... we arrived after what we could do with our own ... and keep the dev. for us without more advanced means, is also a mess ...
I must speak with him ...

We found that electronic management did not, in fact not much ... 60% automation were eventually shunted ... but we had to try to be on!

Moreover 20% of you already consume - and pollute even -. =? t if you 20% of conso in - t necessarily have AT LEAST 20% of pollution in the least ... on the page of the Zx there all the numbers ...
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Unread Messageby fred » 19/11/04, 15:50

econology wrote:Personally I have nothing against shows Zx by olive against bcp is more suspicious ... and he's right somewhere ...

: Blink:
Oh, suspicious, and ... he's right somewhere !!!
Then or you right?
And you're ready to show the ZX?
Can you enlighten us?
There is something wrong in your thinking.
To my mind, or you do not know exactly what you want, or you know very well what you want, that develops in ca ensuring you you lose nothing, glory or money potential or what not.
Unfortunately it sounds wrong, and in these conditions, as I have already stressed, it is lost in advance because you will buy at the first turn.
So okay, it's a choice that has already been made (even if not or little exposures before), but it's your choice and your right and as already said I do not blame you.
For the rest, we just talk about the year, ca change nothing.
Meanwhile, it is soon another site that will leave the pulse and so what, the retrofiteurs will be war, as in the industry ...

:( A little disappointed anyway. : Unsure:
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Adrien
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Unread Messageby Adrien » 19/11/04, 20:48

I think there's something wrong ... It's just a forum with the title "Unite" and your colleague "reluctant" to show us what you did. What good is all this then? Yourselfers can share, but those who advance "réelement" have the right to keep it to themselves? That's why you are against the spirit "sources for all"?

Personally, if I can adapt doping water on my car (see the forum posts) I am ready to help everyone I could, and fully share my "discoveries".

I'm perhaps not an engineer, but I'm not afraid to do things. Last year I remade entirely a vw combi while I had never touched a car, I knew nothing about body ... (<a href = 'http: //songe.org/carrosserie. html 'target =' _ blank '> http://songe.org/carrosserie.html </a>)

Recently I got a motor in order to install the water doping, I knew nothing about mechanics, I had never touched a motor (not even that of a moped). I have read and reread what I've found on the subject, so I completely disassembled the engine to do it again in its entirety, to be able to leave on a nickel base to house the doping ...

I'm disappointed. :(
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Unread Messageby Christophe » 19/11/04, 23:19

There is nothing wrong or suspicious: you misunderstood me .... when I say that it was against companies that do not want the process develops and who hesitate not to ask blockers patents to counter the spread "lawful" process! And in this sense we must not be naive!

It was certainly not overlooked experimenters willing to change their vehicle! But that's how who is really that ... that's all and that's the experience of Olivier who has rubbed quite a swindler when he was a mechanic who makes him think that ... and here I can only be ok with it.

So we show the Zx when we will have agreed on the legal form of the project and we will already motivated a lot of people to an appointment. We will not make personalized appointment anyway ...

But know that there is not much more to see than what has already been presented on my site, moreover, it begins to bcp other modified car ... Do not take this Zx as an absolute example either!

That's why you are against the spirit "sources for all"?

Have I said that?

Anyway if I fail to convince Olivier (I reminded you that even when it was he who made the realization on the ZX), we find other proto at present ....
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Adrien
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Unread Messageby Adrien » 20/11/04, 10:23

You said: (Finally mounting on a zx)
"We reasonably believe we reaches the system limits development today with our means of individuals. We are looking for industrial and academic partners wishing to develop applications around water injection in internal combustion engines. Because only industrial means and / or laboratory will go forward, probably to improve the results and in all cases to move towards an understanding of the water injection in heat engines .."

I do not think I have any input.

From what I read, you'd be in favor of an industrial take in hand the project because it would be one of the only ways forward.

This is why I say that. I do not think that if one day a "nice" comes Industrial develop the system, and let it disponnible everyone. Rather, I'm afraid he wants to use it to do lots of benefits ... And in the end it will be accessible only to a certain class of person: those who have sub.

Of course next to it there will be small handymen, but they will not have much advanced, especially since they will be total illegality because reproducing the patent of a large industrial ...

I do not think WE reaches the limits of the system development Using our means individuals.

Moreover, even if an industrialist made the project progress, and left the sources available to all, how could we with our means of particular follow us?

I do not understand what you mean here: "It was certainly not for experimenters wanting to modify their vehicle! But here is how to know who is really who ... that's all and it's good experience of Olivier who was around a lot of margoulin when he was a mechanic who makes him think that ... and on this point I can only be ok with him. "

You're afraid that people copy down what you have done? And they take ownership of your merit? And they will get the sugar on your back?

Adrien
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Misterloxo
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Unread Messageby Misterloxo » 20/11/04, 13:11

Hello everyone !

Adrien:
From what I read, you'd be in favor of an industrial take in hand the project because it would be one of the only ways forward.

This is why I say that. I do not think that if one day a "nice" comes Industrial develop the system, and let it disponnible everyone. Rather, I'm afraid he wants to use it to do lots of benefits ... And in the end it will be accessible only to a certain class of person: those who have sub.


I think we have to be realistic and to agree on the objectives!
For me the main objective being to demonstrate to manufacturers and governments that the system works and that amount of ordinary citizens take ownership. Thus, it would be the people who would put pressure on these powerful lobbies.
We ordinary people are the majority and we do impose measures laws, restrictions that are not chosen by a minority of people who still think leaders know what is good for us.
In fact, for most, they know what is good for them first and interests!

This is why the union is needed to reverse the balance of power in our favor. You all know! This is the game of democracy!

If Pantone systems are mushrooming all over France, Europe and around the world, manufacturers will adapt and it will offer the pantone or equivalent systems in order not to miss the request of the people or rather the customer !

In our economic system, everything is a matter of "supply and demand".

Do not you think that if this system or equivalent is generalized by industrialists, that would be a great victory and a progress for everyone and for the planet ?!

It will still remain for a long time "old" engines tinkering to satisfy our passion for tinkering.

... And your colleague "reluctant" to show us what you did. What good is all this then?


Personally, I understand it! Developing such systems sometimes exposes to pressures ...
This is true in the US (Meyer, Al Francoeur, De Palma ...) but also in France our beautiful democracy! Keep in mind the valenergol case. Small company producing and HVB has dropped by over customs that call him the TIPP on a non-petroleum product.
You should know that our sweet France is pressure to classify HBV (raw vegetable oils) as products subject to the TIPP at European level. Fortunately, and for now the Alllemagne takes the path opposite and encourages the development of this product as fuel.

Why France she plays this role while HVB have enormous advantages:
- Carbon cycle ie no worse. carbon released during combustion was removed from the atmosphere by the plant during its growth.
- Less polution
- greater independence from oil
- Revitalization campaigns by developing a culture (less subsidies give farmers)
- Cakes from the sunflower pressing are an excellent dietary supplement for livestock (instead of giving them bone meal or other protein supplement made from transgenic soy ..)

IM asking you.

Also, I think that most of prototypes there will be at most it will be easy to expose.



You're afraid that people copy down what you have done? And they take ownership of your merit? And they will get the sugar on your back?


Again, we must put things in context.
Christophe is one of the pioneers of this system in France, and without him we would certainly not here to quibble.
Who went to the US to meet Pantone? Who took the risk of making his subject's degree of validation of the Pantone? Which was meet farmers to help them rétroffiter their tractors? Who remained on the floor in the employment level because nobody wanted to give credit to the results announced in the memory validating his degree?
Which proposes to mount a Assos? Who is the webmaster of this site? .........................


We may not agree with 100% with Christophe. Personally, I do not agree with all his words but it is necessary to return to Caesar what is Caesar and not to be mistaken target.

Also, if Christophe, having spent several years working without pay on the Pantone, was a framework to do by being paid, it's not a problem for me.

Finally, I understand your enthusiasm and relative disappointment. But it is also up to you to be proactive and go beyond the proposed framework if you think it's your duty to do so. Everyone is free.

That soon from you

MisterLoXo
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Adrien
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Unread Messageby Adrien » 20/11/04, 14:15

I completely agree.

Before you can make war, we must have a sufficiently large defense and our attack is powerful enough.

But there was nothing, no casiment driven with doped water or a traditional Pantone. And those equipped do not broadcast almost no fear? We will not do anything like that ...

If industrial take over the project in the near future, all this will avail. It would take a maximum of people install the system on their vehicle, even if it is limited by our means of handymen, it is already huge! And then we can put pressure réelement I think.

Adrien
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