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Heating, insulation, ventilation, VMC, cooling ...Ideal heating ...

Heating, insulation, ventilation, VMC, cooling ... short thermal comfort. Insulation, wood energy, heat pumps but also electricity, gas or oil, VMC ... Help in choosing and implementation, problem solving, optimization, tips and tricks ...
urok
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Ideal heating ...

Unread Messageby urok » 23/05/18, 22:27

Hi all,
I decided to make an extension of about 60 m² to my home, in the form of an independent building attached to the existing one.
It will be up to current standards (RT2012, VMC) but I'm thinking about how I'm going to heat it up.
First question: connect it to existing heating (city gas condensing boiler)? Or treat it independently?
Second question: if I opt for independent heating, what to choose?
My title is obviously provocative but this choice is oh so difficult !!
-Electric heating ? Even the storage heaters, a priori economical seem already dice: I heard that the next RT2018 all that is electric heating would be banned ...
- PAC taking calories in the air? In our regions (Auvergne), the winter is cold and the PAC are not very efficient ...
- renewable energies? Wind; excluded in my opinion because the winds are violent where I live; solar? Even if the last generation produces electricity from solar radiation and recovers both the heat by cooling the panels, in rainy weather, we have neither.
stove (wood, pellets, pellets ...)? Why not, I already have a wood stove for my main home, in addition to the central heating ...
It is true that we are changing with new technologies, passive houses etc ... But I have the impression that we have little perspective on this and, worse, that this technology is too complex and unfortunately poorly controlled. My father has invested large sums in a vertical capture tank system, he only has emm ..., the company has closed etc ... etc ... Sometimes I think that a good old fire of wood, at least we are sure of the result ...

In short, thank you for giving me your opinion.
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Gaston
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Re: Ideal heating ...

Unread Messageby Gaston » 24/05/18, 10:58

It seems to me that it lacks important information: the assignment of this extension.

Depending on whether it should be used (so heated) every day, only at night, or only occasionally the answer will probably be very different.
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urok
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Re: Ideal heating ...

Unread Messageby urok » 24/05/18, 18:41

yes, why not give this precision: it will be two pieces of life, so to heat continuously ...
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chatelot16
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Re: Ideal heating ...

Unread Messageby chatelot16 » 24/05/18, 21:29

a good old wood fire we are on the result ... and if we cut the wood itself we are sure not to ruin

heat pump is the best solution if you have a heat pump that works well ... alas it is not mastered by everyone and we see a lot of problem

the problem of heat pumps is that we forbid everyone to do it yourself, and requires to go through professionals some of whom are worse than handyman ... conversely good handyman are better because he take the time to think and learn ... unlike some professionals who do not have the time to think about working enough to pay for their expenses

for me the ideal heating is gasogenic, generator and heat pump ... but it is an ideal that will be available one day ... but not available right now

so with what is available now I would say heat pump for one who does not want to handle firewood, and being careful to choose a competent installer, knowing to choose a good model of heat pump

and for those who can take care of firewood it is the most economical and the most reliable
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urok
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Re: Ideal heating ...

Unread Messageby urok » 24/05/18, 21:56

yes but again, there are no calories in the cold winter air of Auvergne (often -10 ° C), and so in this case, the heating is provided by electrical resistors and there, ouill the wallet !!!!
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Gaston
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Re: Ideal heating ...

Unread Messageby Gaston » 25/05/18, 09:59

The wood is ideal ... if there is someone to feed the fire during the day.

Otherwise, we must move towards an automatic system, so a pellet boiler, a gas boiler (since the housing seems already supplied with gas), a heat pump or a convector heater.

Knowing that those who are the most economical to use are the most expensive to install, there is no "ideal" but only a compromise between the portfolio and ecology.
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Bardal
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Re: Ideal heating ...

Unread Messageby Bardal » 25/05/18, 11:39

For a piece of 60 m2 rt2012, the simplest, the least expensive (with the purchase as with the use), it is a pac air-air of great mark, inverter and optimized very cold, about 3 kW. This will be suitable up to temperatures of -15 ° -20 ° C.

Investment below 2000 € (installation included), annual conso less than 100 €; you can do most of the installation, with the only startup by a refrigeration, it will reduce the investment (it's easy to do, and within reach of any average DIYer). Check here: domotelec.fr and selected in the range Mitsubishi (hyper heating) or Hitachi or Panasonic ...

No need to increase the amperage of the meter, it is less powerful than a vacuum cleaner ... No annual maintenance apart from dusting done by you. It is without competition in heating. Little more, it will eventually serve air conditioning during heatwaves ...
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Re: Ideal heating ...

Unread Messageby Gaston » 25/05/18, 11:50

bardal wrote:you can do most of the installation, with the only start-up by a refrigeration engineer,
Still need to find a refrigeration company who agrees to come and connect an installation that he did not sell ... :(
It's a good option if you have a friend ...

bardal wrote:No annual maintenance apart from dusting done by you. It is without competition in heating.
I am a little more mixed than you with respect to PAC because we do not have a very good visibility on the service life after the warranty period ... and bad examples of irreparable models after 4 or 5 years.
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chatelot16
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Re: Ideal heating ...

Unread Messageby chatelot16 » 25/05/18, 11:54

a -10 ° C there are still calories to pump

it is at 0 ° K = -273 ° C that there is no more calories at all

of course -10 ° C the cop of the heat pump is worse but still better than a simple electric heater

the heat pump allows to add all the energy sources that it wants including the renewable energy ... contrirement with oil or gas which seems to me a bad use of fuel which should be reserved for uses more noble than heating

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_de_Carnot

cop for -10 ° C = 263 ° K outside and 30 ° C = 303 ° K inside:

cop = 1 / (1-Tf / Tc) = 1 / (1-263 / 303) = 7,57

I took an example where the heating is done by a floor heating which allows to use a low temperature ... the cop decreases with a radiator which needs a stronger temperature

alas the current heat pump we have a cop much lower than the theoretical maximum ... there is still progress to be made
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Re: Ideal heating ...

Unread Messageby Gaston » 25/05/18, 12:04

chatelot16 wrote:a -10 ° C there are still calories to pump
Yes, but we are starting to encounter some basic technical problems such as the frost accumulating on the outside exchanger.
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