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Agriculture: problems and pollution, new technologies and solutionsClay ground

Agriculture and soil. Pollution control, soil remediation, humus and new agricultural techniques.
monidura
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Clay ground

Unread Messageby monidura » 23/05/18, 16:29

Hello to all, news on this forum, I wish to have feedback on the lazy method when we must "feed" a clay soil so easily compact. I live in the Charolais with a land that can fatten (according to the stories of former farmers) a cow Charolais per hectare, so it's not for nothing that I think I have gold in my garden. But even if she is very generous in the summer, she is super in love in winters, and compact to the slightest annoyance. I can not have these lumps so glorified despite blankets, inputs of manure and leaves, a little green manure and for now a little grelinette to try to unclog a minimum.
thank you for sharing your experiences
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torrent
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Re: clay earth

Unread Messageby torrent » 23/05/18, 18:44

Hello,
I also have a clay soil.
if you go down to ~ 25cm I have good pottery ground, well yellow orange ...
it's been a few years (I do not know exactly 4-5 at least) that I cover with hay and occasionally with horse manure.
the land begins to improve slowly (I'm doing grelinette this year and use only fangs to loosen it).

Regarding the manure, I advise you that of cow for the clay lands. For the rest I could not find anything better than waiting and covering with hay
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denis17
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Re: clay earth

Unread Messageby denis17 » 23/05/18, 22:15

I also have clay soil, and for lumps, forget for now, it will have to come with time : Wink:
Denis
PS this is my second year in fenoculture and for the moment nothing happens (I mean that there is a priori no visible soil aggradation), but this does not prevent the vegetables from push.
Denis
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to be chafoin
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Re: Clay Earth

Unread Messageby to be chafoin » 24/05/18, 01:00

I have the same type of soil ... and problem.

I came to wonder if we should not do with it. Didier seems to think that the plants can adapt to this soil and go get what they need and that basically it is a prerogative to believe that a plant absolutely needs a loose soil. Perhaps this apriori is due to our conception (outdated) of a good culture (tillage ...)?
It is true that it is difficult to leave: I often have the impression after the establishment, that the rooting is a very difficult and long phase. It takes time before the plant really rises to the heights (if indeed the two things are related, but hey ..). But perhaps it is due to my technique of culture, because sometimes I have plants that can very well take root. For example, these soils are cold and slow to warm up more than the others in the spring so maybe my impression is due to a too early planting period compared to the soil? This year I decided to retain 1, 2 even 3 weeks more. Moreover I find that with the heat, the ground closes and becomes hard like concrete. So I try to cover my soil more systematically and with a thicker and more extensive cover of hay to limit the cracks (see picture on my thread: a meadow?). We'll see...

But what do you think is difficult with these soils? Is this also the start-up period?
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Re: Clay Earth

Unread Messageby Janic » 24/05/18, 08:02

Hello
try to spend a crotch fork in the future furrow to sow. One passage a day, without trying to penetrate deeply. This requires almost no effort, does not disrupt the layers, and without seeming to, at a rate of one cm per day the soil will be loosened on 15cm 15 days and especially not hardened whatever the temperature. Cover the ground, after semi, obviously!
Needless to say, this work must begin after a rain and its drying for a day or two, before hardening. (but I specify it anyway!) :D
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Julienmos
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Re: Clay Earth

Unread Messageby Julienmos » 24/05/18, 12:29

to be chafoin wrote:J
But what do you think is difficult with these soils? Is this also the start-up period?


Yes...

the start of some vegetables often seems long and less rapid progress than eg the vegetable garden of the neighbor, carefully motocultured and milled ... but then, in summer and autumn, it works well!

for seedlings (eg peas this year) I also have gaps in the rank often, while the neighbor seems better. But it's not that kind of little details that will discourage me, knowing that for two years my garden produces very well, without (or with very little) tillage. :)
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monidura
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Re: Clay Earth

Unread Messageby monidura » 24/05/18, 15:55

actually, at home too the vegetables have a hard time to start and I also think of the ground a little colder but in summer and autumn it's the vegetable festival in the garden.
I asked myself the question to decompact this clay soil; it may be necessary to bet on the roots. that is to say do not count on a blanket "inert" (although the soil works anyway), but at the least opportunity on a maximum of live plants and that in any season, and in addition these plants would also be water pumps in autumn and spring.
on the other hand difficult to manage all this with vegetables, ....
What do you think ?
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Re: Clay Earth

Unread Messageby perseus » 24/05/18, 18:00

Hello,

There are different types of clays that do not have the same properties. Do you have any ideas of proportion in clay? of their type?

In general, the clay soils present a very strong "inertia", in case of evolution of the practices, it takes time for a new dynamic equilibrium appears. So you have to be patient.
A cover that then leads to an enrichment in organic matter is a good thing that can help make the soil a little lighter on the superficial horizon.
One option would be to add a fairly fine organic material and incorporate it in a superficial way before maintaining a hay cover, but this still leads to some tillage.
The cracking due to retraction is not bad in itself, it can even be positive (except for constructions :) )
On the other hand, it is true that in the case of soaked soils, it is better to stay at home, both for the gardener and for the soil. And indeed, the warming of soils is long and this can even be a little exacerbated by a thick mulch cover.
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Re: Clay Earth

Unread Messageby to be chafoin » 24/05/18, 19:49

Yes the retraction can have positive sides: I imagine that for example the first rain that falls can penetrate deep quickly (as in earthworm holes?) And suddenly, do not easily undergo evaporation by the following.
But I still believe that retractions are rather negative overall for vegetable crops: tearing networks of mushrooms, or worms galleries or even plant roots ... They also go hand in hand with a closure of the earth that hardens considerably. It then takes a long rainy period for the earth to reopen. If a crop is already in place, it's good, otherwise the plant will have to devote a lot of energy to its root tissue ...
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