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Agriculture: problems and pollution, new technologies and solutionsVegetable garden of the (super) lazy in the 04 (800m)

Agriculture and soil. Pollution control, soil remediation, humus and new agricultural techniques.
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nico239
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Vegetable garden of the (super) lazy in the 04 (800m)

Unread Messageby nico239 » 31/05/17, 19:06

Hello,

2 words on the title
- (super) ... is the goal: to do almost nothing from sowing to harvest

We slowly start a topic that we hope to follow regularly during our failures and successes

Where do we come from?
From 84, Luberon, tenants for years we tinkered over the (meager) possibilities that were given us by making perma-pheno ... etc without knowing it elsewhere.
Since January 2017 owners of 3ha in the 04: large enough to "kill" to the task but especially to do what we want and especially experiences (finally)

Our way of thinking:
All feedback from all of us interest us.

And the word "experience" is essential because it is important to make tons of it in the market gardening or botany.
Mini example: 4 years ago we bought tarragon in a plant market, the seller had told us that it was not even worth dreaming that it spends the winter ...
My faith it is 4 years that this tarragon started again more beautiful every year (planted in full ground against the house full north).

This year the move was made in the worst conditions, we unearthed the tarragon to the snatch it was put in pots, it remained more or less protected outside, in our new place of residence, And even 2 small planters without any protection in full frost (we no longer knew what was in it) and it made -15 during 15 days and it left again more beautiful the first beautiful days in spring always in the pots , It was taken out of the pots and replanted in the ground and it is carried like a charm ...
So we do not know how to interpret the "it will not pass the winter"

We watch a lot of videos and other information on the net and we realize over the course of the comments that many internet users tend to consider established and valid on their behalf the realizations put in pictures ...

For our part we are rather circumspect on the "ready to reproduce".

Because a multitude of parameters are different from a kitchen garden or garden to another

Climate, altitude, sunshine, type of sunshine, humidity, rainfall, rainfall frequency, groundwater, soil, soil, fauna, flora, agricultural environment, crops, varieties, genetic hazards , Adret, hubac, predators or not ... etc

Reason why we planted the decors to say that for each space we must ADAPT the realizations of each other to its land (earth summarizing all the parameters cited above) and not necessarily apply them to the letter.

Thus a pioneer will provide you with extraordinary seeds of tomatoes that grow without watering (and that he has put 20 years to select must not forget it) and that will not suit your land absolutely, one can multiply the examples to infinity .

On the other hand, applying this excellent method and attitude and SELECTING YOURSELF from its own crops, SES own seeds adapted to its land seems to us the ideal driving.

We stop there for our vision of things.

So our land or set the scene:
From the fallow
800m altitude
Last rain: the morning of 2 May
Small livestock valley: no crops (therefore no pesticides) and many hay meadows
Position on a mound in the middle of valley: either far from the river and away from the "mountain", except error no source nor near water table
Earth clay hard as stone (electric auger - not very eco-friendly all this - sometimes struggling to start the 1ère layer is saying)
Earth glasses: very little
Slugs: To date none
Bald mouse: little (much less than in the Luberon)
Birds: well-thieved oaks, crows, birds of prey, paragliders ...
Insects: crickets in profusion, at this time almost no locusts (unlike the Luberon)
Butterflies: many, lemon, flamed, argus, Apollo (it astonishes me but maybe or very similar), not seen a swallowtail at the moment,
Toads: 1 in watering system
Rabbits: an invasion (obligatory roasting). Our 4 cats, uh rectification our two pussies, started a daily hunt to the rabbits
Wild boars: to date none
Roe: to date none
End of frost early May (snow the 1er may this year)
Fresh nights currently from 5 to 10 °
Sunny sunny days 30 ° BUT abundant cloudy sprouting so nothing to do with the Luberon and direct non-stop sun days
Land never cultivated.
Organic indicator plants (as we call them): thistles, golden buttons, daisies, clover, trefoil, wild cherry, wild rosehips, vipers, daisies, wild camomile, plus all those that have not yet been taken Time to discover and the "prickles" in chaos.

This gives an idea of ​​the corner and its biotope.
We would probably learn even more about our land by having a better knowledge of all the flowers or plants that we have not identified but it will come with time ...

Here is the naked ground of departure at the moment when on the left with an agri-friendly friend installed the greenhouse, the right part being devoted to an outdoor vegetable garden

Image

Image

See you soon for the continuation, question, criticism, reservations and welcome suggestions, positive as negative one is taker of everything this is how one progresses.
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"A tool that does not consume energy and respects soils is what? Ben is a tool that does nothing "(quote conference François Mulet)

sicetaitsimple
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Re: Laziness of the (super) lazy in the 04 (800m)

Unread Messageby sicetaitsimple » 31/05/17, 20:57

Good evening, welcome, and good luck for this installation.

In rereading, I think that the first problem (for gardening / market gardening, I did not quite understand if the project meant personal or commercial) is water, right?
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lily 31
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Re: Laziness of the (super) lazy in the 04 (800m)

Unread Messageby lily 31 » 31/05/17, 22:11

Hello and welcome
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nico239
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Re: Laziness of the (super) lazy in the 04 (800m)

Unread Messageby nico239 » 01/06/17, 00:14

sicetaitsimple wrote:Good evening, welcome, and good luck for this installation.

In rereading, I think that the first problem (for gardening / market gardening, I did not quite understand if the project meant personal or commercial) is water, right?


Hello

Thank you for the welcome and encouragement but the hardest is done, assembly of the greenhouse and enclosure summary but sufficient to protect the kitchen garden outside the rabbits.

The vegetable garden is a personal project just to eat.

And the garden idem project personal but that is another area.

In fact we do not know completely if water will be a concern: this is the whole interest of sharing, we do not know and we will see all this together

All that is known is that the earth is hard as bends but it is very quickly wet to 4 or 5cm beneath the surface

Advantage if you dig a hole in the auger to plant a stake for example and that you reboot the whole with the same earth stuffing well with a mass is enough to hold the stake ... good for security I add one or 2 Pebbles but it would be concreted it would be the same

It is good super compact clay which will be excellent for our future accessory installations in cob, but for the culture it will be the surprise.

At the moment with a good layer of straw everything goes well it remains wet underneath however the greenhouse goes up to 50 ° and outside 30` in the shade all grows .... one crosses the fingers ....

For a month no watering of the tomatoes either in greenhouse or outdoors.

But we have absolutely no preconceived ideas, nor the desire to beat the record of non-watering: we will adapt to circumstances and (especially) to the weather especially for the outside and to some extent for the " inside.

The goal is to really do as little as possible and to watch push: do nothing to prune, do nothing to tear, water as little as possible, lay down the seedlings and the buckets (that is not yet decided but it has the " Air to walk then why not)

If it works, continue if it does not work

Image

Image
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Did67
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Re: Laziness of the (super) lazy in the 04 (800m)

Unread Messageby Did67 » 01/06/17, 11:23

nico239 wrote:
We watch a lot of videos and other information on the net and we realize over the course of the comments that many internet users tend to consider established and valid on their behalf the realizations put in pictures ...

For our part we are rather circumspect on the "ready to reproduce".

Because a multitude of parameters are different from a kitchen garden or garden to another

Climate, altitude, sunshine, type of sunshine, humidity, rainfall, rainfall frequency, groundwater, soil, soil, fauna, flora, agricultural environment, crops, varieties, genetic hazards , Adret, hubac, predators or not ... etc

Reason why we planted the decors to say that for each space we must ADAPT the realizations of each other to its land (earth summarizing all the parameters cited above) and not necessarily apply them to the letter.



1) For some reason, this thread had escaped my vigilance.

2) Yes, alas, on the Internet there is 90% of ... bullshit!

Rarely, one of the essential conditions is respected: if A has B consequence, it would still be necessary to check that non-B gives non-A; If not, it's just a coincidence ...

At the very least, one should at least make a comparison "all other things being equal" before asserting that A is a miraculous solution!

An alternative, sometimes, to establish that it is not a coincidence being to know the actual biological mechanisms. There is then a "presumption of causality" (nobody, in real condition, will ever see nitrifying bacteria, but when after warming and drying of the earth I see growth exploding and plants turning to darker green, Know ", with little chance of mistaking me, that it is nitrification, which I know the bacteria require about 14 ° minimum, are aerobic, etc ...

So even if I do not escape my dose of enthusiasm, sometimes self-blindness, I try to remain "scientific" (believe what is seen) and not to be in "religious incantation "(Even what one believes).

3) One of the first dias, in my lectures, is: "To each one of his garden of the lazy"

To each his PP.PNG



That is to say if I agree.

This is also the reason why I make the effort to explain (at the risk of drunkenness), rather than "plating" a solution ... which is only mine.
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Did67
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Re: Laziness of the (super) lazy in the 04 (800m)

Unread Messageby Did67 » 01/06/17, 11:28

nico239 wrote:

At the moment with a good layer of straw everything goes well it remains wet underneath however the greenhouse goes up to 50 ° and outside 30` in the shade all grows .... one crosses the fingers ....



I invite you to discover what I have written about "phenoculture" and why straw is a "poor" material, while hay is naturally rich and balanced. While covering as well, protecting as much the water reserves ...

The better you will feed the living organisms of the soil (worms, bacteria, fungi, and many others), and the better your soil will "get worse" (that is, become "all alone").

I consider myself a breeder of living soil organisms, which, they garden for me. And not a gardener. Like any breeder, I take care of the rations of my livestock ... with hay. And not with straw, which is only a poor waste.

But of course, you do what you want! But try!
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nico239
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Re: Laziness of the (super) lazy in the 04 (800m)

Unread Messageby nico239 » 01/06/17, 15:09

"To each one THE SHEEP OF THE SLIDER" one is exactly on the same wavelength ...

And it is indeed this notion that must be conveyed or even made understand with sometimes some pedagogical efforts ...

For the helping fashion effect, which in this case is rather positive, could turn against "us" if the new gardeners do not soak up the underlying philosophy.

As I said above the pheno-perma and cie ... it is not ready to reproduce or ready to plant but ready to adapt to its context ... which is not quite the same
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nico239
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Re: Laziness of the (super) lazy in the 04 (800m)

Unread Messageby nico239 » 01/06/17, 15:30

Did67 wrote:
nico239 wrote:

At the moment with a good layer of straw everything goes well it remains wet underneath however the greenhouse goes up to 50 ° and outside 30` in the shade all grows .... one crosses the fingers ....



I invite you to discover what I have written about "phenoculture" and why straw is a "poor" material, while hay is naturally rich and balanced. While covering as well, protecting as much the water reserves ...


Strongly agreed but the term "straw" was generic ...

In fact the neighbors give us
- dry mowing (large quantity)
- straw (large quantity)
- hay (small quantity)
(I will do the pictures)

So we manage with this and I summarize the whole in "straw"

We try to have more hay (more) but this more it is not given precisely :)

On this subject I take advantage of the mowing to indicate the track of the many small businesses of "landscapers" who often discharge their mowing and all the toutim (small cuts, various branches ... etc) directly to the landfill.

What really is spoiling the merchandise ...

In general these pros have a traditional training at 90% and therefore totally ignore the benefits of this garden waste and are delighted to come to your home especially since the landfills are not all free for them.

They are in high season so solicit it's winning winner for everyone.
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"A tool that does not consume energy and respects soils is what? Ben is a tool that does nothing "(quote conference François Mulet)
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Re: Laziness of the (super) lazy in the 04 (800m)

Unread Messageby Did67 » 01/06/17, 15:54

Yes, but beware:

- high nitrogen content, "boosts" the bacteria too much, to the detriment of fungi; In the long term, too much nitrogen in the soil, and even if it is nitrogen is "organic", we can expect the same effects as with ammonitrate: vegetables too pushed, too fragile, too attractive for the Parasites (especially suckers)
- not / little cellulose,
- risk of fermentation even if dried before; It re-moistens and can then ferment ...

I would highly recommend mixing with straw, possibly dead leaves. Or, to a lesser extent, sawdust or chips, to restore a C / N of about 20.

Hay is naturally balanced. For other materials, you must "knit" ...
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nico239
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Re: Laziness of the (super) lazy in the 04 (800m)

Unread Messageby nico239 » 01/06/17, 15:59

I share that is why we mix by being careful on the mowing.

As said above we do what we can with what we have more the pile of leaves ... of oaks (photo to follow like the rest)

In this regard question: the oak leaves (decomposition hyper slow) is better in leaves or crushed in "sawdust"?
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