Returns Scroll Stop Automatic mode

Agriculture: problems and pollution, new technologies and solutions37 Lazy Vegetable Seed

Agriculture and soil. Pollution control, soil remediation, humus and new agricultural techniques.
mca37
I discovered econologic
I discovered econologic
posts: 5
Registration: 17/07/18, 09:32
Location: Tours Indre et Loire 37
x 1

37 Lazy Vegetable Seed

Unread Messageby mca37 » 17/07/18, 15:32

Hello,

I present you the space that we rent for the kitchen garden.
This is a plot of 200 m2 located in a set of allotment gardens. These gardens were created on old swamps. This parcel was cultivated until November 2017 with: tiller / fertilizer / pesticides ... horse manure there is 2 or 3 years old. The crops were potato and beans (together or not I do not know) from the information from the neighbors. There are fruit trees: plum, fig, pear and a vine and cabanon, a space for vegetables about 140 m2 I think.

Before our arrival our neighbor had weeded twice with the weed killer :(. Had survived: horsetail, bindweed (fields and hedgerows), and chickweed.

A first observation of the soil indicates to us that it is clay-silt, acid, packed, destructured and saturated in nitrogen, its capacity of retention of the water is good.

Our first actions were: to remove the horsetails, break the superficial crust, sow and plant.

A space has been planted with a mixture of mellifers to cover the ground and feed its fauna, another of cucurbitaceae to cover the ground, some has remained 'naked' waiting for time to cultivate it, it also allows us to to know the weeds growing in this soil, the rest is cultivated for the moment but waiting to be covered.
Today other weeds point the end of their leaves: lamb's-quarters, grasses, asteraceae ...

I saw hay sales ads on a known and nearby website. These are mostly hay for animals mowed in June. Given the acidity of the soil, its nitrogen saturation, is it better to put hay or straw? and is it the right time to put one or the other?
1 x

User avatar
Did67
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 12595
Registration: 20/01/08, 16:34
Location: Alsace
x 4209

Re: 37 Lazy Vegetable Seeds

Unread Messageby Did67 » 17/07/18, 16:18

What makes you say that it is saturated with nitrogen ??? A priori, I do not think so, even if a wasteland is still "rich" (fertility is reconstituted or is recovering).

Nitrogen, normally, is leached and "naturally", without action of the man, one tends towards a balance which is rather a soil of kitchen garden that one will consider as "poor" or "poorly provided" (with regard to "requirements" of vegetables, if we want a "significant" productivity).

The nitrophilous plants, indicative of nitrogen saturation, are nettles. Also the aygopoda, the garlic of the bears, the cleavers, ...

Cucurbitaceae are quite demanding and their exuberance will inform you. If they exceed everything, are dark green, so yes, it may be that nitrogen has accumulated.

Knowing that a fallow land that is cleared is still quite rich 2 or 3 first years, by mineralization of everything that was there.

Do the parameters you give (silty clay, acid, ...) result from soil analyzes (in your plot or neighboring plots) ??? Because you do not cite other typical "acidophiles" in a humid environment than horsetail: ferns, ...

My belief, but it is not a religion, is that hay has all the benefits of straw, without its main fault, the "nitrogen hunger". It feeds much better soil organisms ... because more balanced. Its main flaw: it can be difficult to find / forward it. And then, it is necessary to support the sneers of the neighbors, generally not convinced (euphemism) at the beginning! But not necessarily good agronomists. Sometimes religiously "followers" of "methods"!
0 x
mca37
I discovered econologic
I discovered econologic
posts: 5
Registration: 17/07/18, 09:32
Location: Tours Indre et Loire 37
x 1

Re: 37 Lazy Vegetable Seeds

Unread Messageby mca37 » 05/08/18, 22:30

An error on my part is sandy clay and not silty, although there is silt, proportion side I do not know, simple tests done modeling the earth, and deposit. It is an old market garden and flooded by the Loire that brought silt converts for several decades in allotment gardens.

Side weeds we see emerge now in addition to bindweed, horsetail, grasses and asteraceae: lamb's-quarters, amaranth, and purslane. All edible but of bad reputation with our neighbors ... and I must recognize invasive even if for now we appreciate the cover and protection of the soil that it generates.

Questions, beginner, many arise ...
Side cucurbitaceous (zucchini, squash, buternut): despite the heat / drought and the fact that we do not water, they flourish widely. Begins to appear powdery mildew I think (whitish, porous, round spots that gradually cover the whole leaf, makes it turn yellow). If I understand correctly this is a mushroom, which needs spores, a minimum temperature (largely reached I think at the moment ...) and moisture or water to grow. It has been several days since we have been watering (according to the state of the leaves, the development of the plants, it seems useless) in spite of the heat. So what moisture / water would it come from? of the ground ? What are the conditions for the development of powdery mildew (if it is it), the same at the temperature as that of mildew? How to limit the spread of powdery mildew without using various fungicides? Having sown late, these plants are in the process of flowering / fruit formation. Could this compromise the crops?

We have two non-runner long zucchini plants growing side by side and notice: one is more leaves, bigger and more male flowers in proportion on the foot and the other foot, the other is more flowers females and zucchini;) although more puny (less leaves). They are shots of the same variety, sown on the same day, with a distance of one meter between plants. Is it a coincidence or when several plants are so close to each other they "specialize"?

A question (no questions ...) for strawberries ... You talk about straws with BRF rather than hay, an exception. If I followed, the BRF is particularly rich in nutrients, from live wood, cut after leaf drop and then crushed. You use the BRF because strawberries are descendants of wild strawberries and this brings them a food closer to their initial living conditions than hay. In the forest for me, it is the leaves and dead branches that reach the ground, I suppose (without going to check), that there is little living wood that reaches the ground. Therefore, why put BRF rather than twigs, branches and dead leaves? Although I understand that the BRF is richer in nutrients, it seems to me somehow further away from the original environment. So is this choice due to the fact that in a kitchen garden the fauna / flora of the soil is different and more apt and efficient to quickly make the nutrients coming from BRF than twigs / dead leaves less rich? A need to feed the soil, its inhabitants and therefore the plants more quickly? A question of quantity to bring (I suppose that to bring as much as BRF would require more materials, or even that it is impossible to bring as much with these materials)? A choice due to ease of supply (size and reuse of fruit tree cuttings)?
0 x
mosw
I discovered econologic
I discovered econologic
posts: 5
Registration: 29/10/17, 21:03
x 5

Re: 37 Lazy Vegetable Seeds

Unread Messageby mosw » 07/08/18, 22:00

Just for information: I have a plot in the same place and it is the second year that I cover most of hay.
The PH of the bare earth is 7.0. Under the hay, he descended to 5.0.
0 x
mca37
I discovered econologic
I discovered econologic
posts: 5
Registration: 17/07/18, 09:32
Location: Tours Indre et Loire 37
x 1

Re: 37 Lazy Vegetable Seeds

Unread Messageby mca37 » 09/08/18, 23:47

Hello Mosw,

In Tours and around there are many places of allotment gardens. Do you agree to specify where yours is? Ours is on the side of La Riche.
I also take advantage of it for other questions : Wink: Where do you find enough hay and how do you get it into the gardens? How did you evaluate the pH (precise analyzes in the lab?)
0 x

User avatar
Did67
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 12595
Registration: 20/01/08, 16:34
Location: Alsace
x 4209

Re: 37 Lazy Vegetable Seeds

Unread Messageby Did67 » 10/08/18, 23:24

mosw wrote:Just for information: I have a plot in the same place and it is the second year that I cover most of hay.
The PH of the bare earth is 7.0. Under the hay, he descended to 5.0.


Amazing.

To dig.

Have you taken the soil well, and not the top layer of decaying organic matter?
0 x
User avatar
Did67
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 12595
Registration: 20/01/08, 16:34
Location: Alsace
x 4209

Re: 37 Lazy Vegetable Seeds

Unread Messageby Did67 » 10/08/18, 23:26

mca37 wrote:
Side weeds we see emerge now in addition to bindweed, horsetail, grasses and asteraceae: lamb's-quarters, amaranth, and purslane. All edible but of bad reputation with our neighbors ... and I must recognize invasive even if for now we appreciate the cover and protection of the soil that it generates.

Questions, beginner, many arise ...
Side cucurbitaceous (zucchini, squash, buternut): despite the heat / drought and the fact that we do not water, they flourish widely. Begins to appear powdery mildew I think (whitish, porous, round spots that gradually cover the whole leaf, makes it turn yellow). If I understand correctly this is a mushroom, which needs spores, a minimum temperature (largely reached I think at the moment ...) and moisture or water to grow. It has been several days since we have been watering (according to the state of the leaves, the development of the plants, it seems useless) in spite of the heat. So what moisture / water would it come from? of the ground ? What are the conditions for the development of powdery mildew (if it is it), the same at the temperature as that of mildew? How to limit the spread of powdery mildew without using various fungicides? Having sown late, these plants are in the process of flowering / fruit formation. Could this compromise the crops?

We have two non-runner long zucchini plants growing side by side and notice: one is more leaves, bigger and more male flowers in proportion on the foot and the other foot, the other is more flowers females and zucchini;) although more puny (less leaves). They are shots of the same variety, sown on the same day, with a distance of one meter between plants. Is it a coincidence or when several plants are so close to each other they "specialize"?

A question (no questions ...) for strawberries ... You talk about straws with BRF rather than hay, an exception. If I followed, the BRF is particularly rich in nutrients, from live wood, cut after leaf drop and then crushed. You use the BRF because strawberries are descendants of wild strawberries and this brings them a food closer to their initial living conditions than hay. In the forest for me, it is the leaves and dead branches that reach the ground, I suppose (without going to check), that there is little living wood that reaches the ground. Therefore, why put BRF rather than twigs, branches and dead leaves? Although I understand that the BRF is richer in nutrients, it seems to me somehow further away from the original environment. So is this choice due to the fact that in a kitchen garden the fauna / flora of the soil is different and more apt and efficient to quickly make the nutrients coming from BRF than twigs / dead leaves less rich? A need to feed the soil, its inhabitants and therefore the plants more quickly? A question of quantity to bring (I suppose that to bring as much as BRF would require more materials, or even that it is impossible to bring as much with these materials)? A choice due to ease of supply (size and reuse of fruit tree cuttings)?


Raise me soon.

I'm doing some messages tonight sitting on the ground with a non-french keyboard ...
0 x




  • Similar topics
    Replies
    views
    Last message

Back to "Agriculture: problems and pollution, new techniques and solutions"

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum: Julienmos and 3 guests