Concrete VS acid for recovery tank, service life?

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rescwood
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by rescwood » 18/03/08, 19:11

"Acid" water and Joints don't mix well (dangerous cocktail, joints and acids) Just kidding .....

So that's my concern: I was told that the injection of rainwater into the washing machine was to call SAV DARTY much earlier than expected ....


By definition, rainwater is very weakly mineralized, ultimately it is only distilled water "contaminated" by substances present in the atmosphere. Main responsible for a slightly acidic pH: carbon dioxide (CO2) -> carbonic acid. The relative purity of rainwater means that minute amounts of dissolved CO2 are sufficient to vary the pH, so minute amounts of the structure of a concrete tank also dissolve to neutralize this water. At least, on the scale of a human life ... : Cheesy:

In a washing machine, the use of detergents makes the water extremely basic, and consequently eliminates the possibly "corrosive" character that could present a weakly mineralized water. In addition, the absence of hardness allows substantial savings in products and eliminates the risk of scaling. Rainwater is soft water without softener, and therefore without rejection of regenerating salts. Personally, I see only advantages. :D
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little sparrow
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by little sparrow » 18/03/08, 21:31

Hello ,

Leo Maximus wrote:me. Observation: whatever the wind direction, the measured pH of rainwater in my home is 7. So here the rainwater is neutral contrary to what I was told ...

be careful ... the Ph you noticed is measured (I guess) after runoff on the roof and reception or storage somewhere ....
because generally, the Ph of "meteorite" rainwater (falling, before contact) is always acidic, of the order of Ph 5 to 6 ... !!

pady6 wrote:So that's my concern: I was told that the injection of rainwater into the washing machine was to call SAV DARTY much earlier than expected ....

be careful too ... rainwater (naturally soft), unlike softened water (by softener) is not corrosive, as many say .. !!
due to its conductivity which is very low, and therefore, very little conductive of the galvanic current causing corrosion ... !!

naturally acid rainwater, stored in a concrete tank, will see its pH rise and stabilize (between 7 and 8) after a certain time and depending on the renewal ...

pady6 wrote:the question is in what area ratio and in how long

it is not a question of surface, but of storage duration without renewal (increase of Ph) and of the volumes brought by the renewal of acid water ... (reduction of Ph)

but these variations are small ...
nevertheless, during the 1st year with a new concrete storage, the Ph will climb quite strongly (up to Ph 9 or 10!) during the "running-in" between the water and the concrete, to then descend and stabilize ...
with me, it was only after 1 year that it went down to 8 (after going up to + 9.5, after 6 months of full filling), knowing that I had 2 big periods quite dry (so little renewal) but also on large storage (30 M3) ...
and normally, at the next analysis, in 1 month, it should have continued its descent and be lowered under 8, since new period of rain ...

so beware of hasty considerations, because everything is relative .. !!

cordially : Wink:
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by Leo Maximus » 19/03/08, 08:52

little sparrow wrote:be careful ... the Ph you noticed is measured (I guess) after runoff on the roof and reception or storage somewhere ....
because generally, the Ph of "meteorite" rainwater (falling, before contact) is always acidic, of the order of Ph 5 to 6 ... !!

Well seen. The sample in photo only had a few hours of storage in plastic tanks. Anyway tests have always shown that my rainwater is neutral.

I will repeat the experiment by dropping rainwater directly into the test tube using a funnel, as soon as it rains.
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jonule
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by jonule » 19/03/08, 09:26

pady6 wrote:So this is my concern: I was told that the injection of rainwater into the washing machine was to call SAV DARTY much earlier than expected


uh source?

because non-calcareous rainwater is advised to avoid limescale on the electrical resistances, so it is good.

for the acidity anyway we use the rainwater in stock so after decantation, what matters is what comes out of the filter pump ;-)
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elephant
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by elephant » 19/03/08, 10:07

+1: "they" describe the ravages of limestone to us, then they denigrate the rainwater? Should know!
Be careful, with rainwater, you may have to avoid the Calgon
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by Leo Maximus » 21/03/08, 10:37

It's raining this morning and I was able to do a new pH test. The rainwater is collected on a porcelain plate placed 2 meters above the ground and then transferred to the test specimen a few seconds later.

Image

The pH is well between 5 and 6. I will keep this sample of water to see the evolution of the pH.
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Leo Maximus
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by Leo Maximus » 30/03/08, 10:54

As it is raining a lot at the moment, I was able to take the test several times and I found that my rainwater neutralized itself in one or two days.
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Arthur_64
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by Arthur_64 » 30/03/08, 12:01

I looked a little at the washing machine problem some time ago.

Which means that I use white vinegar (acetic acid) as a softener. I have no regrets. In addition, it clogs washing machines less than fabric softener and is 100% hypoallergenic. And it has the merit of transferring deposits of limestone in the long run, since it is acidic.

Afterwards, the life of your machine will be mainly reduced:
- If it is not balanced (have the rollers and bearings)
- If you overload it (idem)
- If you let it get dirty.

Personally, my machine does not get dirty.

1 / Because I don't use fabric softener (see above)
2 / Because I greatly dose the detergent. The doses indicated by the manufacturers are intended to wash white sheets that have been soaked in draining oil (or the swimming trunks of the guy who bathed under the Total refinery. I bathe naked, nothing worth the sensation of heavy fuel oil ...).
In short, on average, I put less than 50mL of detergent (dosed at the Vizirette) per machine. A three-liter can thus lasts a very long time and my laundry is clean.

After that, it depends on the degree of dirtiness of your linen: the best is to under-dose gradually and see what it gives, because it is also a function of the hardness of your water. you can also add a little baking soda, this improves the effectiveness of the laundry.

Sorry to have diverted the subject. In any case, I am preparing a subject on alternatives to detergents in daily maintenance.
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