Well pump calculation (power, pressure losses ...)

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Christophe
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by Christophe » 30/09/11, 16:46

Did67 wrote:If you fill 100% of water, not elastic, the pressure will be at zero as soon as the first liter is withdrawn ... [in this case, moreover, filling is not simple - decompression valve?]

If you fill like a pressure regulating balloon, upside down, in fact, you compress the air which then serves as "pressurization" ... Yes, there you are right ... But the capacity will be reduced ... Must leave at least 1/3 of pressurized air ...


Obviously but when he talks about a pressure balloon I imagine it is a pressure regulation balloon, like on a suppressor with membrane and compressible air! Hence my first remark at the top ...

There is no point in pressurizing a standard balloon ...

Then I don't know the details at the respective air / water volume level. 30% you say? Okay.
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dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 30/09/11, 16:48

Completely agree with macro with a large air bladder in addition to maintain the pressure for a long time.
A cheap inflatable beach boat, under a heavy weight, can make a big air balloon under medium pressure to drain the water pushed by the air !!!
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by Did67 » 02/10/11, 16:51

OK then: I didn't understand everything.

Finally a 1000l tank and a booster tank? (which I did not find on the indicated site) ...

But I still don't understand how it will work with a single pump:

- on one side, the 1 l balloon, you'd better fill it with the efficiency of your pump (since energy is scarce); the pressures will be the total head height + losses the loads

- on the other hand, your booster balloon, the necessary pressure will be the same + the pressurization of the balloon ...
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by fam » 04/10/11, 12:26

To react to the last post

The 1000l water tank, I have it, but it's not food.
It will be high and give water by gravity (but I will not have 1 bar)
The system envisaged is to stop filling as soon as the desired height is reached (like a flush)

For information on the pressurized tank (See point 39 of the proposed link or even directly: http://lokistagnepas.canalblog.com/arch ... 24310.html)

The balloon will be controlled by a manometric kit.

The advantage of the balloon is that it is a food tank and that the pressurized water also allows me to use a gas water heater
(Pressure over 1 bar (1,2-1,5) and take a shower.

The water usable under pressure would be rather close to 30% of the volume of the balloon, but it is possible to put balloons in parallel, if that was necessary.

On this I still haven't decided on my starting problem.
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by Christophe » 04/10/11, 12:53

Ok so it's good, as I thought from the start: a suppressor style balloon.

Do you have an idea of ​​the cost of a 100L pressure maintenance tank? What is the dead volume?
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by Gaston » 04/10/11, 13:38

Christophe wrote:Do you have an idea of ​​the cost of a 100L pressure maintenance tank?
There are around 250 euros for a service pressure of 5 to 10 bars.

Christophe wrote:What is the dead volume?
the useful volume essentially depends on the difference between the min and max pressure.

If we assume the balloon full of 100 l of air at the start (at 1 bar), at 1,2 bar, the balloon contains 16 liters of water.
At 1,5 bars, it contains 33 liters of water.

The amount of water usable between these two pressures is therefore 17 liters.

It is advisable to increase the maximum pressure as much as possible (within the limits of the resistance of the tank and the pump).
With a maximum pressure of 3 bars, for example, 50 liters can be drawn before reaching the minimum pressure of 1,2 bars.
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by Christophe » 04/10/11, 15:43

Obviously it depends on the pressure, when I asked the question it was understood ... for 100L of water at 3 bars ... thank you for detailing the calculation :)

So 50L useful is not 100L ... now we have to see if: the balloon manufacturers speak can be in useful volume ...
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by Gaston » 04/10/11, 16:55

Christophe wrote:now we have to see if: the balloon manufacturers speak can be in useful volume ...
For which pressure delta :?: : Mrgreen:
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by Christophe » 04/10/11, 17:21

Pfff ym looking for him! : Cheesy:
I don't know: 3 delta bars?

In any case, the balloon is not a good solution for feeding something that needs 3 bars continuously ...

The 12V pump always seems to me the best solution ...
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by fam » 04/10/11, 19:33

Balloons are sold for their gross capacity. Hence my reference to 30 or 40% of useful volume in pressure.

I do not need 3 bars continuously but more than 1 bar to be able to use a gas water heater.

The solution of the 12V pump has its advantages but also disadvantages: Battery wear and requires the purchase of an additional drinking water tank.
So it is the most expensive solution, and which will consume the most.

With the system I choose, the group works a few minutes a day to pump water and put it under pressure.
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