Bladder and rainwater tank: compatible?

[plasmanu]

In fact it makes sense.
This is just-in-time usage.
Whether the booster runs 10 minutes, or the pump runs 10 times 1 minute. In both cases: same consumption of electricity for the same amount of water displaced: with the bladder less.

Imagine a sani-crusher that would empty only when it is full.
No: it is progressively.

It is obvious that leaks must be absent.

[kilou]

It is clear that a bladder tank is not made to save electricity (although ...) but above all to save the pump itself. The wear of the pump, in particular its electrical part, is mainly caused by repeated starts. With an automatic pump, the slightest flush or filling of a small watering can start the pump and therefore tire it. Okay there is no bladder to change but there it is the whole pump that must be changed after a while.

Regarding power consumption, yes pumping 1x10L or 10x1L is about the same although each start-up consumes more than a pump that runs continuously. It should also not be forgotten that a presscontrol consumes in standby (flow / pressure sensors) and I could read that it represents around 18W day and night, so x 365 is not that little. In short I am not thrilled by the idea of ​​a presscontrol pump ... but even less by a bladder tank if I have to change it every year.

Really what I find curious is the difficulty of finding information on these butyl membrane-eating rainwater bacteria. Apart from Germany, nobody talks about this. To wonder if this is a real problem ...

Or can the bladder also become porous due to the acidity of rainwater ????

[plasmanu]

My bladder is porous with beer
after...
The elec motors are of exceptional resistance. Just watch the pool pumps. And it's not the starter condo that sucks when you count the pump CVs.
Each situation has its own use.
Lift height.
Storage required.
Desired flow.
If my source gives 500l / hour.
And that I want to put 1m3 in the pool: I need a pressure pad. Otherwise I wait an hour more to watch it flow slowly and I suck the bottom full of dirt.

[chatelot16]

butyl rubber is the strongest: that of air chambers: it should be almost eternal in a water tank

unfortunately good rubber is expensive and the membranes can be made in economical mixture

if the membranes rot too quickly I see no other explanation than the poor quality of the rubber

there is no need for butyl rubber for a water accumulator: epdm rubber is cheaper and also has a long service life

do not confuse the real butyl rubber of the very durable air chambers, and the self-fusing butyl tape which has nothing to do ... not very durable

[Forhorse]

The electrical wear of an engine does not exist. If you saw the number of start / stop that take in per hour certain engines in the industry you would be sick
More concretely, a good quality motor, correctly dimensioned and correctly protected is virtually eternal from an electrical point of view.

[kilou]

Sorry, but a domestic water pump is not an industrial engine, and neither is its price. I'm not going to install three-phase but a single-phase 220V motor with capacitor, and that doesn't have an eternal life. Most pumps (especially expensive Grundfos style etc) indicate a maximum number of hourly starts between 10 and 20 and it is not for nothing. It's more than enough, but it leaves you imagined that a mid-range pump is well below. In short in WC use it is not for nothing that we recommend large balloons style 200l or more. The problem is that it is valid for domestic overpressure with drinking water ... and not necessarily for rainwater to believe the Germans.

I will dig deeper into the question before choosing between presscontrol and balloon. In any case, thank you for your answers and remarks so far. And if you have happy or unhappy testimonials from users of bladder tanks (or presscontrol) with rainwater, please let me know! Have a nice week end

[chatelot16]

an engine heats up a little more during starting than during normal operation ... so if starting is too frequent it overheats

but paradoxically the small engines which have poor efficiency are made to heat a lot ... starting or not it does not heat much more ... it is rather the big engines with good efficiency which suffer from repeated starting

not too worried: 20 starts per hour = one starts every 3 minutes ... you need a tank that is really too small to reach such a rate

[Forhorse]

Sorry, but a domestic water pump is not an industrial engine, and neither is its price.

They are made up in exactly the same way. In a mono motor, the weak point is the capacitor (it is inexpensive and can be changed easily)
But I also saw tri motors start 60 times a minute for 16 hours a day, and they lasted at least 5 years.
So between this extreme and your pump which will maybe start at worst 30 times an hour, you don't really have to worry about it.
And if you really are still afraid, as I said there are protections to implement, monitoring the temperature is the most important (the cheap method is the classic thermal relay, the luxury method is the probe inserted in the winding ... note that the majority of commercial pumps are already equipped with a thermal circuit breaker integrated into the winding, certainly its lifespan is limited but it is supposed to be useful only as a last resort)

[Alain G]

It is clear that a bladder tank is not made to save electricity (although ...) but above all to save the pump itself.

False!

Regarding power consumption, yes pumping 1x10L or 10x1L is about the same although each start-up consumes more than a pump that runs continuously.

False!

Consumption is significantly higher on several starts than one and we do not recover the deceleration of the regenerating motor since the contactor is open!


It is better to use a large booster tank than a small one, but the price and location means that one installs a small one, consumption is greatly reduced, contrary to what one might think!

Sorry, but a domestic water pump is not an industrial engine, and neither is its price.

True!

These are uncoated motors in the winding with quality pietre capacitors often too tight in voltage.

But I also saw tri motors start 60 times a minute for 16 hours a day, and they lasted at least 5 years.

True!

These are motors designed to do this of good quality that have nothing to do with cheap pumps!


I admit that it is possible to buy good quality and reliable equipment but often the price equals 4 times or more for the same equipment, the poor benefit from something that they cannot afford normally and get a taste for it replacing it several times before understanding that quality has a price to finish with this last jaded to replace it which in the end will have cost more than the one who will have animated his passion thinking he can afford it!

[tatayet38]

Hello,
I gave an answer on another thread in this forum, however, after twenty years of using rainwater I have never changed it on my installation and once with my parents.
As for pumps with electronic regulation, it works until the day when it gives up the ghost following a storm or simply the planned obsolescence. My experience as a technician and electronics technician has taught me to use as little electronics as possible, which makes it possible to reduce failure rates very effectively.
I use a Telemeca pressure switch, a relay and a tempo (stops the pump if it is running for more than 10 min), the pump being in three phase I do not risk having a problem with the capacitor.
As for the lifetime of the multicellular pump, although of good quality, I doubt that the plastic turbines will last as long as the cast iron one.