Ochlocracy and anacyclose

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sen-no-sen
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Ochlocracy and anacyclose




by sen-no-sen » 20/04/18, 11:14

Do you know the ochlocracy?

Changes, rowdies, earthquakes ... We no longer know which term is appropriate to describe the series of political upheavals taking place before our eyes. Exit Matteo Renzi, after Nicolas Sarkozy and François Hollande. If we add Brexit, the election of Donald Trump, the presidential campaign in France, the upcoming elections in Germany, we can see how fractured the old landscapes are at the moment. These changes reveal in particular the versatility of voters, their exasperation and their weariness. They show the growing influence of mood movements over political life, to the detriment of rationality and the long term. Consequently, some fear that democracy will deteriorate under the pressure of populism and uncontrolled passions. An old word, in ancient Greek, was used to name this kind of disorder: ochlocracy. Forgotten, it is now out of use. However, it is worth revisiting.

As opposed to "demos", the people, "ochlos" designates the crowd, which is chaotic, tumultuous, disorderly and unpredictable. Democracy is indeed the power of the people, but it is framed by the people. laws he gave to himself. The decisions come from citizens, but they deliberate logically, because they are supposed to be educated and informed in order to have informed and reasonable opinions. On the other hand, when the domination of the crowd takes hold, the reign of mass emotions, the whims of the multitude, we witness the collapse of the system. Floating at the whim of popular passions, carried away by the crowd, democracy, pressures in depressions, risk of sinking. If this is the case, if the populace replaces the people, then another regime, the Ochlocracy, takes its place. This is what Polybius maintained, in Book VI of his “Histoires”, which attempts a summary of classical Greek political thoughts, and in particular condenses the essentials of Plato and Aristotle.

Almost no one today frequents the prose of this author. He was in his time (between -200 and -120 BC) a prominent figure in Greek history: general after the death of Alexander, he became hostage to the Romans, before the man of The state is not transformed into a historian, diplomat and political theorist. Few texts, over the centuries had as much influence as this abstract, which deeply marked Cicero, but also Machiavelli and Rousseau, among other major thinkers. As the philosopher Jean-Claude Milner (*) has just reminded us, we mainly retained from Polybius the theory of a cyclical evolution of political regimes. Their forms would follow each other in a loop, from monarchy to ochlocracy, as if the wheel of history was spinning indefinitely.
(...)

Roger-Pol Right
Roger-Pol Droit is a writer and philosopher. (*) "Relire la revolution", Jean-Claude Milner, Verdier, 2016.

https://www.lesechos.fr/09/12/2016/LesEchos/22336-053-ECH_connaissez-vous-l-ochlocratie--.htm

Image

Above a representation of anacyclosis :Cycle of political regime successions, developed by Polybius, in which populism succeeds democracy, before returning to the monarchy.


I think everyone will have noticed that it is very difficult to call these days the system of governance as being "democratic" (in the strict sense I mean), in the sense that we live within so-called liberal democracy, that is to say systems of governance based on the exchange of goods, of its distribution within social classes1 and on solutions to maintain the production of abstract value
We also note that the development of social networks has made it possible to accentuate a trend, based on emotions rather than reflection, on appearances rather than structure ...

It would be a bit of an exaggeration to take it literally if I can say the concept of anacyclosis, in the sense that our society is a mix of all of this, but it clearly appears that this very old concept is extremely relevant. and predisposes us to anticipate the future.

Where it becomes even more interesting is when we make a comparison between anacyclosis and economic cycle:
Image
https://www.francois-roddier.fr/?p=471

The anacyclose was based on the cycles of governance within ancient societies, these being relatively slow in terms of evolution, it is now necessary to make some adjustments due to the acceleration of the current phenomena.
Insofar as the tyranny succeeds the ochlocracy, is in view of the challenges of tomorrow (migratory flow, peak oil, global warming, economic crisis) this chronology of powers unfortunately seems to stick well to the historical course.

What do you think?


(1) Most of the citizens / politicians debate revolves around the notion of "distribution of wealth", everyone always wanting more obviously ... without understanding that the essential of "injustices" is intrinsically linked to the structure of the system ... that no one really wants to change ...
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Re: Ochlocracy and anacyclose.




by Ahmed » 21/04/18, 22:14

The least we can say is that this is not a hot topic! :D
Indeed, to know if the cycle of Polybius is still valid, should we first question the definition of the categories in question.
For example, the concept of democracy has evolved a lot in its content, even if we generally pretend to see it as permanent.
The need for a democratic form was the result of the inadequacy of the old powers to cope with commercial expansion and increased financial flows. Royalty supposed a legitimization of its power by an inaccessible abstraction: God; it was therefore necessary to find another source of legitimacy with this characteristic to ensure lasting control of the new oligarchy. Through the suffrage of the citizens (according to a variable extension of this concept) and the fact of the transfer of power to representatives, was going to be born a fiction, the sovereign People, against which it would be vain to be indignant since it would amount to contradict... :D
On the question of the influence of public opinion and its versatility, governments are very sensitive to it (even if they do not always comply with it, in the name of democracy!) And, moreover, deploy great efforts to orient it favorably to their interests. This is because they act as an interface between voters, on whom they depend from an individual point of view (their personal career) and the economic interests that in reality they are responsible for protecting collectively (for this, no matter in the background who is elected).
One thing is certain: due to the disappearance of the conditions which gave birth to the consumer society, changes in lifestyle and in relations with politics irreparably change in nature and the consumerism consensus ceases to function. Therefore, growing social disparities, savings on previous "liberalities" (sic) and the call for sacrifices to maintain (increase?) The privileges of the wealthiest can only lead to government modalities that are more restrictive of freedoms and more. repressive: when the stock of carrots runs out or its destination is restricted, that of sticks remains abundant (the first is consumption, while the second is a "service"! :D ) ...
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Re: Ochlocracy and anacyclose.




by Janic » 22/04/18, 09:13

the privileges of the better-off can only lead to government modalities that are more restrictive of freedoms and more repressive: when the stock of carrots is exhausted or its destination is limited, that of sticks remains abundant (the first is consumption, while the second is a "service"! :D ) ...
beautiful formulation! : Cheesy:
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Re: Ochlocracy and anacyclose.




by sen-no-sen » 22/04/18, 11:14

Ahmed wrote:The least we can say is that this is not a hot topic!


Yes, its terms sound like pathologies!

Ahmed wrote:Indeed, to know if the cycle of Polybius is still valid, should we first question the definition of the categories in question.
For example, the concept of democracy has evolved a lot in its content, even if we generally pretend to see it as permanent.


In reality there has never been democracy in the strict sense of the term, it is a fairly utopian concept insofar as it would require that each citizen has a sufficient amount of knowledge to have an informed opinion on the most strategic matters ... we are far from the mark.
The current society is rather a "democracy ... merchant" or market and opinion as others will say.
However, the idea that history obeys cycles could not be more relevant, then assigning a name to each of them is after all subsidiary since each period reflects a different model.

One thing is certain: due to the disappearance of the conditions which gave birth to the consumer society, changes in lifestyle, in relations to politics are irreversibly changing in nature and the consumerism consensus ceases to function.


"It is at the end of the ball that we pay the musicians" could say it in another form.
The accumulation of contradiction (entropy) from one period to another necessarily leads to an evacuation of this a few generations later.
The repayment of this debt results in the emergence of a certain number of problems which in turn induce solutions (reactions would be fairer) which pays the high price, generally by a cycle of suffering.

The current case is interesting since the liberal / libertarian phase post 1970 now translates into a security phase or we must not face an accumulation of entropy linked among other things to the excessive use of extractivism.
Migration flows (economic, ecological or wars) are a perfect demonstration.
Apart from whatever governments to come, from the far left to the far right, the accumulation of its problems will leave little choice to its future "managers".
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Re: Ochlocracy and anacyclose.




by Christophe » 22/04/18, 12:48

A subject where I completely ignore the terms of the title, I like that !! This forum is a well of knowledge! 8)
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Re: Ochlocracy and anacyclose.




by Janic » 22/04/18, 13:31

Royalty supposed a legitimization of its power by an inaccessible abstraction: God;
rather a claim to legitimize himself because no king can hold any legitimation of "god". Indeed, in theocracy, no individual possesses self-decreed power, not even royalty.
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Re: Ochlocracy and anacyclose.




by sen-no-sen » 22/04/18, 17:34

Janic wrote:
Royalty supposed a legitimization of its power by an inaccessible abstraction: God;
rather a claim to legitimize himself because no king can hold any legitimation of "god". Indeed, in theocracy, no individual possesses self-decreed power, not even royalty.



In fact in the strict sense the king is indeed a representative of God, but this concept must be understood in the light of sociology and not of spirituality.
Because from a spiritual point of view it would be absurd for a man to be able, through a genetic inheritance (a lineage) to have any relationship with an alleged divinity.

We must therefore agree on the definition of God.
From a naturalist point of view God is an anthropomorphic concept that symbolizes unity within a cultural field(1), this is very far from the common definition of a "to be supernatural creator of the world".
God is therefore sociologically a guide thought,a driving principle, but this thought cannot assume sufficient power if it is not crystallized around political power, and that is where the king comes into play.
The king playing the role of "condensation nucleus".

In our time the monarchs (in the strict sense) (2) can no longer exist within industrial countries except as a guarantor of a tourist windfall and by "traditions" £££ (royal family of England), because in its last the driving principle became the economy, this one replacing the idea of ​​God (the principle remains however the same).


(1) God is probably a symbolic representation of energy, it is for this reason that the number of deities venerated within a cultural field is invariably proportional to the amount of energy it dissipates. ..
(2) Certain politicians by means of a revision of their constitutions have become a kind of "neo-monarch", this is the case of Vladimir Putin for example, but the reason for their continued power remains of a different nature.
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Re: Ochlocracy and anacyclose.




by Ahmed » 22/04/18, 20:20

The naturalist interpretation is attractive and certainly relevant as a concept, but what is obvious is this fetishistic obligation to situate the legitimacy of power outside the field of action of men, by a simple mystification in the case of the royalty and, in a more elaborate way, through recursion in that of democracy *.
In fact, from the maintenance of the principles and the unity of the human group to the conservation of the advantages linked to power, the second tends to prevail.

* Democracy is an ideal, therefore it has never existed and will never exist, which should not lead to giving up trying to get closer to it.
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Re: Ochlocracy and anacyclose.




by sen-no-sen » 22/04/18, 20:52

Ahmed wrote:In fact, from the maintenance of the principles and the unity of the human group to the conservation of the advantages linked to power, the second tends to prevail.


Indeed no believer would exist if there did not exist a sort of "metaphysical carrot" to move him forward, and even less if he had to grasp the notion of god with regard to the naturalist definition!
However, this does not change the real nature of things, there is no more a god than gods for the simple reason that our mental capacities are by no means sufficient to understand the incomprehensible ... we must therefore create concepts to unite, connect brains to create a network.
The idea of ​​God * therefore serves as an "anchor" for the believer, and it is then this psychic implant which allows the community of believers to build a society founded around this guiding thought.
It is exactly the same with exponential economism, this one is based on the belief (which it is largely operational) to be able to constantly increase one's standard of living, to increase one's sphere of influence and gratification to a point like this, via the technologism, promises ultimately if not eternal life, at least immortality.

* If this idea was really grasped then we should logically note the advent of a perfect world ... this is obviously by no means the case, which demonstrates that the concept of God is unfortunately a concept of a sociological order.
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Re: Ochlocracy and anacyclose.




by Janic » 22/04/18, 21:02

In fact, from the maintenance of the principles and the unity of the human group to the conservation of the advantages linked to power, the second tends to prevail.
absolutely! Like most other animals, which brings us closer.

* Democracy is an ideal, therefore it has never existed and will never exist, which should not lead to giving up trying to get closer to it.
it is characteristic of all ideals (even the worst)!
We must therefore agree on the definition of God.
completely and on this subject few cultures are in harmony whereas the very principle is common to all.
From a naturalistic point of view God is an anthropomorphic concept which symbolizes unity within a cultural field (1), this is very far from the common definition of a "supernatural creator of the world".
it is the result of the rise of materialist and atheistic thought in opposition to unmeasurable metaphysics.
God is therefore sociologically a guiding thought, a driving principle, but this thought cannot assume sufficient power if it is not crystallized around political power, and that is where the king comes into play.
it is indeed what our so-called religious and non-religious societies have built up over the millennia, because abstraction is difficult for some to access and concretization by forms, images (often naive and false) or concrete powers for their misfortune most of the time when placed in the hands of a single individual.
A true theocracy avoids such a situation.
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