Are my windows sieves?

Heating, insulation, ventilation, VMC, cooling ... short thermal comfort. Insulation, wood energy, heat pumps but also electricity, gas or oil, VMC ... Help in choosing and implementation, problem solving, optimization, tips and tricks ...
nono187
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Are my windows sieves?




by nono187 » 20/02/18, 12:59

Hello

We bought a house in 1986 this summer, all electric, with radiators bypass batchata and the first bill from EDF has just fallen, it sockets ...

We are very hesitant between installing a pellet stove or changing a good part of the windows, we have for example in the living room 5 openings including 2 bay windows. The front door is also glazed and aluminum and lets a lot of air through, but we change it in early April with a real insulated, secure door, etc.
I really feel like we are overconsuming because there is so much air to enter that the heaters turn on. so if there is a pellet stove there is what it will not galley to heat us because of the windows.

Here is an excerpt from the DPE for insulation, what do you think? the window UW looks huge? : Shock:
A good pellet stove (or wood stove) or windows to reduce the electric bill?

Thank you in advance for your insights : Wink:
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sicetaitsimple
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Re: Are my windows colanders?




by sicetaitsimple » 20/02/18, 13:28

nono187 wrote:I really feel like we are overconsuming because there is so much air to enter that the heaters turn on.



Hello,

a question, "so much air"? So the windows are in bad condition?
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LOGIC12
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Re: Are my windows colanders?




by LOGIC12 » 20/02/18, 14:06

Hello, It would be interesting to know the exact year of construction of the house.

And also if the bay windows really do not have a thermal break (with the year of construction, we could pretty much know)

It must be said that heating with electric radiators a house of 130 m2, anyway, even with new trendy windows, you will not know much about the bill.

This home must have a CMV. Instead of replacing the windows, I will try to install a VMC double flux not too expensive.

Regarding the windows, have you noticed any condensation? If they date from 86 like the house, it is very possible that they are without thermal break. But the savings would be negligible compared to investing if you changed them.
I know several people who have replaced single glazed windows with high-performance PVC double glazing. result of the races: economy close to zero.

By cons equip your windows with curtains and double curtain, it slows the heat to go to its colder parts. Close the shutters well at night.

Thus the house would not be in depression and the air passages would not be requested at all, whereas with the depression of air caused by the VMC, the air seeks to pass wherever it can.

Is there no chimney in this house? no stove, no insert? nothing ? In general with electric radiators in such a surface, we try to overheat the walls with a few good outbreaks, and the radiators only have to do the maintenance.
In general with electric heating, we do not manage as with central heating, we only heat the rooms used and not necessarily continuously. And inertial heaters, even if they are more pleasant, there is no miracle. It must also be said that if we only look at consumption in the coldest months, the sum is always high, we have to take the average over the year.



Another solution: install a real central heating by radiators (see available energy)

Yet another solution: Install an AIR / AIR heat pump (CLIM reversible inverter) which installs in just one day, with two or three splits (do not be fooled by ducting). consoles (it's the same, but it installs like a radiator, a little above the ground.

it has a yield about 4 times higher than electric radiators, which considerably reduces consumption. In addition, it rises the temperature very quickly, if for example we have lowered the temperature when we are at work. We place one or two splits in the living room (pay attention to the location: put two in the living room, one of which is not far from the corridor, and the third in the hallway of the bedrooms. And that can heat everything up by leaving the interior doors open And at night, if we close the bedroom door, we put the radiator on a bit which will only have to maintain the temperature.

I know people who, in a recent house, have abandoned propane central heating (which is as expensive as electric heating) and who are very satisfied. The bill has dropped.

Inquire, ask to see houses equipped as well. We see such heaters often in banks for example, but also in a lot of houses. These machines have made a lot of progress and work down to - 15 °. And we keep the radiators in case of breakdown, or in case of extreme cold. We have to get there with 3 to 4000 euros all installed. So much cheaper than changing windows and bringing real savings.

Your DPE has necessarily a bad classification because of the electric heaters, because one uses the "coefficient of primary energy of 2,58".
That is to say that we multiply the actual consumption on the meter by 2,58. Because when you consume 1 kW on the meter, you have to produce 2,58 at the place of production.

And also, check that your VMC is not permanently at high speed.

ANOTHER SINGLE THING: It would have been good to see your windows and French windows entirely from top to bottom as well as the air intake that there must be. Put floor-to-ceiling photos for floor-to-ceiling windows.
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nono187
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Re: Are my windows colanders?




by nono187 » 20/02/18, 18:54

Good evening and thank you for your answers.

So, the house dates from 1986 the windows are original. they are made of aluminum and without thermal break, the aluminum is constantly freezing but does not condense, the windows also are very cold. When I speak of passing air yes we feel cold weather near the joints depending on the weather.

This is really what makes me lean towards changing the windows, we put curtains on a bay, we can feel that the curtain keeps the cold anyway. Uw of 4,2 knowing that the standard is a 1.3 and even less it makes me hallucinate, we have to heat 4 times more to compensate for the losses in fact is that it?
I really have the impression that the radiators are struggling to maintain the temperature at 19 ° ..

I have a VMC sf Hygro according to the DPE, I recently left it on speed 1, I happened a few times this winter to leave it on speed 2 by forgetfulness : Oops:

We do have a fireplace with a fireplace closed by a glass and moreover we used it (a cord passed there) but even if we felt a little heat, it really does not heat up. We come from a new house with a stove with 80% contura yield, damn difference .. we miss our stove ^^

I would do daytime photos tomorrow for the berries.

We are classified in C for the DPE, it is not bad for a house of 1986 however. the radiators upstairs rarely turn, it is an open staircase that leads to a mezzanine and 3 bedrooms, moreover you can feel the heat when you climb the stairs.
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sicetaitsimple
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Re: Are my windows colanders?




by sicetaitsimple » 20/02/18, 19:14

nono187 wrote: When I speak of passing air yes we feel cold weather near the joints depending on the weather.
............................
I recently left it on speed 1, it happened to me a few times this winter to leave it on speed 2 by forgetfulness : Oops:



Ah, high-speed CMV is deadly!

After, concerning the windows (and with the CMV at low speed ..), you really have to see if they have any faults. Anyway they must be equipped with an air inlet at the top, at least some? If they are in "good condition", I agree with Logic12, changing them even with high-performance models will not fundamentally change things, with regard to the necessary investment.
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nono187
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Re: Are my windows colanders?




by nono187 » 20/02/18, 19:24

sicetaitsimple wrote:
nono187 wrote: When I speak of passing air yes we feel cold weather near the joints depending on the weather.
............................
I recently left it on speed 1, it happened to me a few times this winter to leave it on speed 2 by forgetfulness : Oops:



Ah, high-speed CMV is deadly!

After, concerning the windows (and with the CMV at low speed ..), you really have to see if they have any faults. Anyway they must be equipped with an air inlet at the top, at least some? If they are in "good condition", I agree with Logic12, changing them even with high-performance models will not fundamentally change things, with regard to the necessary investment.


Yes there are many air inlets at the top, in fact these are holes in the wooden trunk of the shutters, after how to know if it is really in good condition. : roll:
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sicetaitsimple
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Re: Are my windows colanders?




by sicetaitsimple » 20/02/18, 19:51

nono187 wrote:
Yes there are many air inlets at the top, in fact these are holes in the wooden trunk of the shutters, after how to know if it is really in good condition. : roll:


Not obvious, but it should be understood that in any case the air flow which returns (by the openings provided for or by windows not completely sealed), it is the air flow extracted by the VMC.

In addition you speak of mezzanine, it is true that it is not top for the heating aspects. You heat the top and you curdle down. It will be the same with a stove.
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Re: Are my windows colanders?




by LOGIC12 » 20/02/18, 21:04

HELLO, Ah, there is an open staircase and a mezzanine .... no wonder the radiators are rowing and that they cannot heat up.

You should know that the hot air is lighter and that it seeks by all means to go upstairs, so no wonder the radiators row.

Ditto for the insert, especially if it is not far from the open staircase.

On the other hand at the top, it must be hot.

You should be able to prevent the air from going up to keep the heat down. You can try to make a test by blocking the passage to the air by stretching sheets for example. You will quickly realize the problem. Otherwise the bottom can only heat up when the top is very very hot.

And it's still the same problem with this configuration. In this case, only, a floor heating at low level would have kept most of the heat down.

As this is not the case, it is likely that an AIR / AIR PAC, with at least 2 splits placed as far as possible from the open part, would allow you to have a more regular heat.

Try to put pictures of the lower part of the house which show the mezzanine. It is completely unnecessary to put a split on top, because the heat will go well enough on its own.

A change of window would not change the problem much.

On the other hand with this money you can pay yourself an AIR / AIR PAC and a VMC DF, and maybe you will have leftover money, and there, you are very likely to be effective.

The big concern, which we find in this type of house, is that the hot air always tries to rise.

He should have said it, the DPE man ...
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nono187
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Re: Are my windows colanders?




by nono187 » 20/02/18, 21:24

LOGIC12 wrote:HELLO, Ah, there is an open staircase and a mezzanine .... no wonder the radiators are rowing and that they cannot heat up.

You should know that the hot air is lighter and that it seeks by all means to go upstairs, so no wonder the radiators row.

Ditto for the insert, especially if it is not far from the open staircase.

On the other hand at the top, it must be hot.

You should be able to prevent the air from going up to keep the heat down. You can try to make a test by blocking the passage to the air by stretching sheets for example. You will quickly realize the problem. Otherwise the bottom can only heat up when the top is very very hot.

And it's still the same problem with this configuration. In this case, only, a floor heating at low level would have kept most of the heat down.

As this is not the case, it is likely that an AIR / AIR PAC, with at least 2 splits placed as far as possible from the open part, would allow you to have a more regular heat.

Try to put pictures of the lower part of the house which show the mezzanine. It is completely unnecessary to put a split on top, because the heat will go well enough on its own.

A change of window would not change the problem much.

On the other hand with this money you can pay yourself an AIR / AIR PAC and a VMC DF, and maybe you will have leftover money, and there, you are very likely to be effective.

The big concern, which we find in this type of house, is that the hot air always tries to rise.

He should have said it, the DPE man ...


It is not cold up there no, moreover the radiators set to 17 degrees do not rotate or very can. Maybe if I put them on 19 degrees, below the heat will stay. It will balance out right?

So I think I'm going to give up on changing the windows apart from the good curtains for the night. Maybe a PAC air to see I will make a quote or a stove. The VMC also I will inquire, a colleague also strongly advised me to change the VMC, adjustable hygro bar etc.
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Re: Are my windows colanders?




by sicetaitsimple » 20/02/18, 21:40

nono187 wrote: The VMC also I will inquire, a colleague also strongly advised me to change the VMC, adjustable hygro bar etc.


I think this is very good advice, at least to have the sizing checked. In the 80s, it was sometimes a bit rough and often oversized.
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