Smoke leak on stove Pellets. Find the leak of a chimney (with earthenware bushels)?

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Christophe
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Smoke leak on stove Pellets. Find the leak of a chimney (with earthenware bushels)?




by Christophe » 12/12/17, 12:07

I recently installed a Thermorossi H2O 34 hydraulic pellet stove 34kW (in fact it's more of a boiler than a stove because it doesn't have a blower). The stove is connected to a "classic" fireplace made of bushels of terracotta and masonry ...

The stove was bought secondhand to a professional who delivered it to me, installed it and put it into operation. I actively helped with the installation (about 2h all inclusive).

After adjustment and configuration, the stove worked well but after 3 or 4 days of operation, I noticed smoke coming out of the masonry chimney ie after the stainless steel part.

However, the fireplace draws well, the flame of a lighter is "horizontal" at the entrance to the masonry part (ie at the exit of the sealed stainless steel tubes).

As for all pellet stoves, the beginning of the chimney is in sealed stainless steel pipes (polymer joints + chemical jointing except on 2 connection for the sweeping): 1 tee in exit of stove, approximately 2 m of right height and 1 elbow to 90 ... no escape from this side, I checked.

After the chimney is made of a horizontal part of 2 m approximately with 5 ° of slope and an angle with 90 ° (85 ° in fact) which opens on a vertical chimney of 8m approximately.

The leak is located in the horizontal part or at the level of the 90 ° masonry angle ...

The installation is within the dimensional limits of what the leaflet gives:
Manuel_installation_H2O_34_Thermorossi.pdf
(2.05 million) Downloaded times 1947


Thermorossi_H2O_34.gif
Thermorossi_H2O_34.gif (35.19 Kio) Viewed 19622 times


Here is the horizontal part (I have not better as a photo at hand at the moment), the repaired part was made by myself a decade ago with bricks and mortar refractory.

Cheminée_horizontale.jpg
Fireplace_horizontal.jpg (76.54 Kio) Viewed 19622 times


So I want to find and repair this leak, the problem is that I do not see where it comes from ...

The questions are:

a) Are bushels of earthenware waterproof at a slight overpressure (if there is one, see c) because I do not know anything about it ???)? The installer did not say it was incompatible ...

b) How to detect where exactly the smoke leak comes from? Is there a method? The leak is light and the smell appears only after a few tens of minutes of operation.

I hope it's at the elbow because the bushel has been (re) masonry with a kind of formwork and it is against a wall ... and more access is pretty shitty! In short, if I have to check every bush joint, I should dismantle the whole chimney ... rolalala ... : Shock:

c) In fact I do not know if there is overpressure. There is an outside inspection hatch at the corner at 90 ° before the vertical part (it is right behind the repair).

If it is opened when the pellet stove is in operation, we can see the flow of smoke that is still sucked in by the vertical part of the chimney, so even if the hatch is open, the draft still remains strong ...

So there, I have trouble understanding how smoke can come out of a chimney that is in depression ... : Shock: : Shock: : Shock:

d) Once the leak (s) have been detected ... how to fix? A good layer of refractory mortar from the outside may be enough for a durable repair?

In short some wise advice would be welcome ... history to avoid CO intoxication pellets of a moderator econologue ... which would be a shame! : Cheesy: : Shock:

ps: the horizontal part includes a tube of 125 galvanized along its length that I had put at the time to improve the draft and facilitate the sweeping (during 2 or 3 years I used this fireplace with a stove deom where j I burned wood not really dry I think ... so it was pretty bad at the time)
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sicetaitsimple
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Re: Leaking smoke on stove Pellets. Find the leak of a chimney (with earthenware bushels)?




by sicetaitsimple » 12/12/17, 19:20

I can not really help you, it seems weird ...

On the other hand, I am very surprised by the diameter of your horizontal tube. 125mm, that's it?

For natural print, it seems very low.
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Ahmed
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Re: Leaking smoke on stove Pellets. Find the leak of a chimney (with earthenware bushels)?




by Ahmed » 12/12/17, 19:45

Would there not be bistre infiltrated previously in the masonry lining and degassing now because of the heat released by the combustion gases :?:
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Re: Leaking smoke on stove Pellets. Find the leak of a chimney (with earthenware bushels)?




by sicetaitsimple » 12/12/17, 20:14

sicetaitsimple wrote:
On the other hand, I am very surprised by the diameter of your horizontal tube. 125mm, that's it?

For natural print, it seems very low.


Other questions:

- in your previous configuration (the previous heater), you were also in natural draft (no blower)?
-and the power was it very different from the current power of 34kW?
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Re: Leaking smoke on stove Pellets. Find the leak of a chimney (with earthenware bushels)?




by Christophe » 13/12/17, 10:40

sicetaitsimple wrote:I can not really help you, it seems weird ...


Yes weird or there is a physical singularity in my fireplace! : Cheesy: : Cheesy:

sicetaitsimple wrote:On the other hand, I am very surprised by the diameter of your horizontal tube. 125mm, that's it?

For natural print, it seems very low.


125mm is the "casing" (in fact these are simple galvanized rights) that I had put in the bushels, to increase the speed of the fumes and facilitate the sweeping of the horizontal part (because the hole through the wall is round).

The bushels are 20x20 or 25x25 ... I will work on this problem today I will measure them and put you more photos ...
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Re: Leaking smoke on stove Pellets. Find the leak of a chimney (with earthenware bushels)?




by Christophe » 13/12/17, 10:44

Ahmed wrote:Would there not be bistre infiltrated previously in the masonry lining and degassing now because of the heat released by the combustion gases :?:


Infiltrated outside the bushels on the horizontal part you mean? It is possible but the heat is low, the more 150 ° C comes out of the stove (so less that arrives at the fireplace) ... See p7 notice above. So probably insufficient to degass the bistre a few meters further ???

Otherwise it's a good smell of firewood smoke we feel ...
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Re: Leaking smoke on stove Pellets. Find the leak of a chimney (with earthenware bushels)?




by Christophe » 13/12/17, 10:53

sicetaitsimple wrote:- in your previous configuration (the previous heater), you were also in natural draft (no blower)?


Yes it was a simple Deom wood stove stove ... that I had presented at the time here: heating-insulation / wood-boiler-new-schema-installation-DHW-and-pcs-t4589.html

sicetaitsimple wrote:-and the power was it very different from the current power of 34kW?


Sorry it's not 34 kW is 27.5 kW according to the instructions, I do not know why they called it 34 ... can be the capacity of the integrated heat exchanger? (the note indicates that 34L is the volume of water of the stove ...)

Regardless, yes the Deom should not exceed the peak 15kW ... but with a much higher smoke temperature (probably 350 ° stove output) ... I replaced because of this stove pellet for obvious reasons of comfort and regulation (I have my ECS plugged on it ...) and also because it was a long time that I wanted to heat the pellets and I came across this good opportunity!
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Re: Leaking smoke on stove Pellets. Find the leak of a chimney (with earthenware bushels)?




by sicetaitsimple » 13/12/17, 11:16

Christophe wrote:
Sorry it's not 34 kW is 27.5 kW according to the instructions, I do not know why they called it 34 ... can be the capacity of the integrated heat exchanger? (the note indicates that 34L is the volume of water of the stove ...)

Regardless, yes the Deom should not exceed the peak 15kW ... but with a much higher smoke temperature (probably 350 ° stove output) ... I replaced because of this stove pellet for obvious reasons of comfort and regulation (I have my ECS plugged on it ...) and also because it was a long time that I wanted to heat the pellets and I came across this good opportunity!


Well, I'm not a fan (!!!), but it's a lot of changes at once.

- a greatly reduced draft with fumes that would go from about 350 ° to 150 °
- a mass flow of smoke increased (roughly in the ratio of the powers)

These "puffs", you rather noticed them these last days, during the high winds?
Is your air intake grille sufficient for this new power?
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Re: Leaking smoke on stove Pellets. Find the leak of a chimney (with earthenware bushels)?




by Christophe » 13/12/17, 11:51

What are you not a fire extinguisher ??? : Cheesy: : Cheesy: : Cheesy:

a) Many modifications The deom I did not use it for years except occasionally (and I did not worry about smoke, after it only worked a few hours ... when it worked)

b) Why do you say the drawdown is getting smaller? The vertical part of the chimney (it is she who creates the draw) was not cased. I will make pictures of the draw with a lighter

c) No influence of the wind, if as I have "static" aerators it pulls better when there is wind

d) yes the air supply is, a priori, sufficient ... but good idea I will do tests in this direction!
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Re: Leaking smoke on stove Pellets. Find the leak of a chimney (with earthenware bushels)?




by sicetaitsimple » 13/12/17, 12:22

Christophe wrote:
b) Why do you say the drawdown is getting smaller? The vertical part of the chimney (it is she who creates the draw) was not cased. I will make pictures of the draw with a lighter



Basically, the "draft" of a chimney is related to the pressure difference between a column of hot gas the height of the chimney and the same column of cold gas (outside air).

All things being equal and to keep it simple, the higher your chimney is, the warmer it is and the better it pulls.

But there you went from a situation without problems but with smoke at 350 ° C do you say to a situation with fumes 150 ° C.

Physically and even if everything is in good condition, the draw can only have decreased.

Regarding the possible effect of the wind, if I asked you the question it was because I noticed at home that in the event of violent squalls (not in an established wind), I sometimes had episodes of "repression ".
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