Hello,
Recent purchaser of a house built in 1979, I intend to change (among other things) the frames to replace the old ones (in double glazing with aluminum) by PVC triple glazing.
I was about to get started when I heard about serious condensation and therefore humidity problems caused by the over-insulation of the triple glazing.
-> big stress because the order is almost done. : - |
I have just read that triple glazing installed on an old house required aeration of 15-30 minutes per day. Is it sufficient ?
You should know that the installation of a CMV is almost impossible in this case. Furthermore, I want to avoid the humidity problems in this house, which is the purchase of my life, at all costs.
-> The great sages of this forum could they light my lantern on this?
Thank you beforehand !
Triple glazing without ventilation = serious problems?
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Welcome!
I do not quite understand why it would be the fault of triple glazing ... it condenses when a wall reaches the dew point. Insulating better will increase the average T ° of the walls, so the risk of condensation on the walls (not on the frames) will on the contrary be reduced!
A new chassis, whether double or triple, will necessarily be more waterproof than an obsolete chassis. In both cases it is necessary to ventilate the same ... but in a house there are not only air leaks through the frames!
The type of wall is fundamental to knowing whether a house is breathing or not. The best is wood or ytong (aerated concrete) which are hydroregulators, the worst are chemical insulators of the polyurethane type which do not let the walls breathe at all so VMC compulsory.
Triple glazing provides additional thermal insulation in both directions: that is to say reduced solar gain too, several studies have shown that in the south it is better to double than triple glazing.
You can read this full topic on the usefulness (or not) of a VMC: ventilate a house, is it really essential?
And this one just as complete on advantages (or not) of triple glazing
ps: where did you read this info?
I do not quite understand why it would be the fault of triple glazing ... it condenses when a wall reaches the dew point. Insulating better will increase the average T ° of the walls, so the risk of condensation on the walls (not on the frames) will on the contrary be reduced!
A new chassis, whether double or triple, will necessarily be more waterproof than an obsolete chassis. In both cases it is necessary to ventilate the same ... but in a house there are not only air leaks through the frames!
The type of wall is fundamental to knowing whether a house is breathing or not. The best is wood or ytong (aerated concrete) which are hydroregulators, the worst are chemical insulators of the polyurethane type which do not let the walls breathe at all so VMC compulsory.
Triple glazing provides additional thermal insulation in both directions: that is to say reduced solar gain too, several studies have shown that in the south it is better to double than triple glazing.
You can read this full topic on the usefulness (or not) of a VMC: ventilate a house, is it really essential?
And this one just as complete on advantages (or not) of triple glazing
ps: where did you read this info?
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Great, thank you for this quick and precise response which reassures me about my choice.
The source of my information is not sure, it is about "hearsay" coming from my entourage and some testimonies collected on Internet (thus relative reliability).
I'm going to read the many interesting topics from this forum and inquire about the exact nature of the insulation of the walls of the house.
The source of my information is not sure, it is about "hearsay" coming from my entourage and some testimonies collected on Internet (thus relative reliability).
I'm going to read the many interesting topics from this forum and inquire about the exact nature of the insulation of the walls of the house.
0 x
Here are two interesting links I just found on the subject:
- http://www.livios.be/fr/_build/_maso/_humi/11229.asp
- http://www.energieplus-lesite.be/index.php?id=16892
I continue my research ...
Are there not also ventilation systems directly integrated into the frames?
- http://www.livios.be/fr/_build/_maso/_humi/11229.asp
- http://www.energieplus-lesite.be/index.php?id=16892
I continue my research ...
Are there not also ventilation systems directly integrated into the frames?
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The "we say" must be wary eh you did well to ask for confirmation here
If, there are (existed?) Chassis with openings not ventilation but rather ventilation ...
Your 1st link talks about a problem of condensation on the glazing, it is an almost impossible case in the case of triple glazing ... unless the house is not heated at all or it is -35 ° C ... but in this case it will also condense on all the walls that are not sufficiently insulated!
If, there are (existed?) Chassis with openings not ventilation but rather ventilation ...
Your 1st link talks about a problem of condensation on the glazing, it is an almost impossible case in the case of triple glazing ... unless the house is not heated at all or it is -35 ° C ... but in this case it will also condense on all the walls that are not sufficiently insulated!
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- ATE.Conseil
- I learn econologic
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Replace DV with TV
Hello,
I confirm what Christophe said about the condensation and the perspiration of the house ...
On the other hand, I draw your attention to another important point: You wish to replace Double glazing by triples ... hoping - I suppose - a significant reduction in heating needs ... However, in addition to the exorbitant price of glazing (450 € / m² approximately I think) you will swap your DV with a Uw ~ 1.5W / m².K for TVs with a Uw ~ 1.0W / m².K (Attention, I'm not talking about Ug which characterizes only the Triple glazing and not the doorframes that go with it!) ... suddenly, you can expect a reduction in losses of around 30% ... on an area which represents about 5% of the loss walls ...
Or - ultimately - gain of 1 to 2% ... without counting - effectively - the reduction in free contributions
You would undoubtedly be more interested in improving the airtightness of the envelope and setting up mechanical ventilation (whatever it is: VMC, VMR). You should know that natural ventilation allows you to change the indoor air every 15 minutes ... while a VMC (or VMR) will do it in 2 to 3 hours ... and in a controlled manner!
Otherwise, it must be more judicious (especially if it is the purchase of your life) to insulate the most wasted wall ... probably the walls or the ceilings (it depends on the house)
So start with a thermal study worthy of the name ... the thermician will really be able to offer you renovation solutions adapted to your life project.
Philippe DESON
Council ATE manager
Co-Manager THEIA-Invest & Effi Network
I confirm what Christophe said about the condensation and the perspiration of the house ...
On the other hand, I draw your attention to another important point: You wish to replace Double glazing by triples ... hoping - I suppose - a significant reduction in heating needs ... However, in addition to the exorbitant price of glazing (450 € / m² approximately I think) you will swap your DV with a Uw ~ 1.5W / m².K for TVs with a Uw ~ 1.0W / m².K (Attention, I'm not talking about Ug which characterizes only the Triple glazing and not the doorframes that go with it!) ... suddenly, you can expect a reduction in losses of around 30% ... on an area which represents about 5% of the loss walls ...
Or - ultimately - gain of 1 to 2% ... without counting - effectively - the reduction in free contributions
You would undoubtedly be more interested in improving the airtightness of the envelope and setting up mechanical ventilation (whatever it is: VMC, VMR). You should know that natural ventilation allows you to change the indoor air every 15 minutes ... while a VMC (or VMR) will do it in 2 to 3 hours ... and in a controlled manner!
Otherwise, it must be more judicious (especially if it is the purchase of your life) to insulate the most wasted wall ... probably the walls or the ceilings (it depends on the house)
So start with a thermal study worthy of the name ... the thermician will really be able to offer you renovation solutions adapted to your life project.
Philippe DESON
Council ATE manager
Co-Manager THEIA-Invest & Effi Network
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ATE Council accompanies you to reduce your energy consumption
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Yes Philippe, that's the whole problem that we developed in this subject:
Is triple glazing worth its price? https://www.econologie.com/forums/le-triple- ... t4570.html
In any case, you should know that the change of chassis is the ...worst investment in insulation based on payback time! It's usually 15 to 25 years back!
Unless the old ones are completely dilapidated, single glazed, with days everywhere ... there we would lower this return time ...
Is triple glazing worth its price? https://www.econologie.com/forums/le-triple- ... t4570.html
In any case, you should know that the change of chassis is the ...worst investment in insulation based on payback time! It's usually 15 to 25 years back!
Unless the old ones are completely dilapidated, single glazed, with days everywhere ... there we would lower this return time ...
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Here the situation is a little different because we want to change the chassis not only for profitability and ecology but also for a question of aesthetics. ;-)
In short, I take note of your good advice and may turn to modern double glazing.
Unless I eventually manage to find a good offer for a quality triple glazing approaching the price of double (for 18 frames, we are only 10-15% price difference for the moment).
In short, I take note of your good advice and may turn to modern double glazing.
Unless I eventually manage to find a good offer for a quality triple glazing approaching the price of double (for 18 frames, we are only 10-15% price difference for the moment).
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Rather than the triple glazing I am in favor of the double window.
My father in 77 had done this on our house near Metz with great savings and a significant reduction in noise.
In Marseille he did the same in a very old house (it dates from 1750) by keeping the old window for the appearance and by putting inside a double window.
As far as I am concerned, this is what I will do in my Vosges home. I have double glazing PVC tilt-and-turn but I will add a second window with double glazing.
As I made an ITE with 150 mm of glass wool with placo on metal framework, I already planned the installation of the window with a good reinforcement of the bottom of the opening to support the weight of the window.
My father in 77 had done this on our house near Metz with great savings and a significant reduction in noise.
In Marseille he did the same in a very old house (it dates from 1750) by keeping the old window for the appearance and by putting inside a double window.
As far as I am concerned, this is what I will do in my Vosges home. I have double glazing PVC tilt-and-turn but I will add a second window with double glazing.
As I made an ITE with 150 mm of glass wool with placo on metal framework, I already planned the installation of the window with a good reinforcement of the bottom of the opening to support the weight of the window.
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Zieuter but do not think less ...
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Zieuter but do not think less ...
Peugeot Ion (VE), KIA Optime PHEV, VAE, no electric motorcycle yet...
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Did you come back to Nauuuuurrrre Océano?
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