Hybridization spring! Bicycle Mechanical Assistance

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raymon
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Hybridization spring! Bicycle Mechanical Assistance




by raymon » 15/04/16, 12:08

Spring hybridization would not it be a good solution for our steaming cars? I found this site where we talk about it for a bike:
http://www.spires-carbone.com/
http://www.spires-carbone.com/acceuil/produit/

This solution has some advantages:
-No rare or polluting materials
- inexpensive solution.
-Good yield.
Relatively simple.
This is similar to the idea of ​​the Peugeot hybridair because it would only help the engines on a short distance but very effective in the city and easier.
What do you think?
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Re: Spring hybridization!




by Christophe » 15/04/16, 12:29

The idea is good for a bike: it can be interesting but the energy stored mechanically will be quite low ... so I think it would be difficult to bring this technology to the car ... without much increase the weight of this one ...

At the power / energy level, the site gives just these indications:

- Braking distance for a complete storage: 120m
- Maximum recovery distance with this full storage: 90m
- Restart power: 115N / m


Already it is not a power but a couple. No indication on the storable energy in the system so ... we could at the big ladle estimate the storage yield at 90 / 120% ... is 75% ... if recovery and acceleration are identical?

115 Nm (and not N / m which is not a unit of torque) I assume that it is the maximum torque, when the spring is compressed to max, and compared to VAE, it is a high value visibly, see: http://www.hollandbikes.com/6-points-cl ... trique.htm

The engine torque: it is the force delivered by the engine (expressed in Newton per meter: Nm) it is undoubtedly one of the first criteria to take into account if you must use the VAE in mountain area. 15, 25, 29, 33, 40, 50 and up to 80 Nm (for Yamaha): the higher the torque, the more the bike will have capacity on the hill, and / or with a heavy load. Take note that the engine torque is independent of the power of the engine, which in any case is limited to 250 Watts (almost all high-end bikes are at 250 Watts). From experience a couple of 29Nm is the minimum for very hilly roads. Choosing a high torque may be wise if you do not have a lot of muscle strength or if the bike is very loaded. On the other hand, in town and for rather flat daily trips and / or with only a few light ribs you will not need more than 20 Nm.


In other words, if we put 115 Nm when starting a bike, it will release :)

I think it is then worth using air (I suggested it since we talk about the air motor ...) or a hydraulic circuit (reversible hydraulic motors) to store energy in heavier vehicles and give "free" torque after braking ...
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Re: Spring hybridization! Bike with Mechanical Assistance




by raymon » 15/04/16, 14:03

The idea is good for a bike: it can be interesting but the energy stored mechanically will be quite low ... so I think it would be difficult to bring this technology to the car ... without much increase the weight of this one ...

On the Peugeot Air it seems to me that they counted on a start-up aid on a hundred m which little in town to make significant savings. There he extrapolates what it could give on a vehicle of 4T
Adapt this mechanism on a truck, with a footprint by 1.5m diameter spring by 5cm height, it can restart an 4T truck on 140m (after being fully loaded on 140m).

a little optimistic anyway. For the weight it offers a carbon spring the losses would be lower than with a Peugeot style air system.
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Re: Spring hybridization! Bike with Mechanical Assistance




by izentrop » 15/04/16, 14:08

120 m to stop, it's not braking : Shock:
115 Nm = 32 mWh, a joke;)
Our society constantly produces new tools, but often the financial interests prevail over the protection of our environment.

Batteries for Electric Assisted Bicycles (EVA) are recycled at low cost, often in developing countries, where they are mostly buried, and become time bombs. But they are also recycled wildly to recover the raw material, by people not informed of the danger and irreversibly intoxicated.
discusses conspiracy instead of arguments?

In electrical, it is not difficult to recover the braking energy. It's for cars and probably for bicycles too?
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Re: Spring hybridization! Bike with Mechanical Assistance




by raymon » 15/04/16, 14:15

In electrical, it is not difficult to recover the braking energy. It's for cars and probably for bicycles too?

Yes but more expensive more complicated and it wears out.
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Re: Spring hybridization! Bike with Mechanical Assistance




by Christophe » 15/04/16, 14:31

izentrop wrote:120 m to stop, it's not braking : Shock:
115 Nm = 32 mWh, a joke;)


In Wh yes it's not much ... but another reasoning is the following.

115 Nm = 115 J which is not bad in storage (the F1 had the right to store 400 J regenerative)

If it is released in 1 second, at boot time, that makes 115W support power.
If it is released gradually on say 5 seconds, it's just 23W average power, not so good (compared to the 250W of a VAE)

If 115 J are released in 90 m (so say 10 seconds cycling by pushing well for an average cyclist?) To bike is clearly ridiculous: 14W assistance on average ...

For 120m, yes you do not need braking to stop in 120m bike, so I guess it's steep and it's the maximum storable energy : Mrgreen:

In any case the site lacks information about energy ... but we are here to help them : Cheesy:
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Re: Spring hybridization! Bike with Mechanical Assistance




by Macro » 15/04/16, 15:06

izentrop wrote:In electrical, it is not difficult to recover the braking energy. It's for cars and probably for bicycles too?



On very few electric bikes ...

I have an old Matra with an original BionX kit where there is the brake recovery function ... And even with the pedaling ... And my 106 which sends energy back into the batteries when we slow down (in does it slow down rather than slow down) To know According to the calculations of Remundo ... It reinjects scarcely 30% in electrical energy of the cynematic energy (lost) that it absorbs..This is already ca but it will not advance a lot further a cyclist ... On my scootelec it's even less ... That said ... It saves platelet and brake disc ... My VE on 50 000km and platelets are still ... Almost new ...

The blow of the spring I saw a similar system lately on a motor of mower thermal ... When one puts off the mower the nerve of the motor puts in load a spring which when one releases it makes it possible to start the motor ... No starter, no battery, and system to load the spring easily by hand to restart normally ... I found this .. Super ...
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Re: Spring hybridization! Bike with Mechanical Assistance




by Ahmed » 15/04/16, 19:58

There is no simple mechanical recovery device, lightweight and restoring an interesting percentage of what is lost during braking (I'm talking about the case of bicycles). The accumulation in a spring is probably the best solution, however it remains of a very limited interest and concerns only the city use since the amount of energy stored will be insufficient to climb a slope on the road.
Solutions based on compressed air or hydraulics are inefficient because of the losses inherent in these systems.
It is more, in my opinion, a marketing approach surfing on the green side of the concept ...
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Re: Spring hybridization! Bike with Mechanical Assistance




by raymon » 15/04/16, 21:01

The advantage of such a system would be to help a thermal engine at startup although it can only work very short distance in town so it should be able to calculate accurate power restored. It's not greener than a hyper-complex Prius that's barely more efficient than a classic car.
Who can do a complete calculation?
What is important is the financial cost compared to the real economy obtained.
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Re: Spring hybridization! Bike with Mechanical Assistance




by Ahmed » 15/04/16, 21:27

It's not greener than a hyper-complex Prius that's barely more efficient than a classic car.

Absolutely! There is no lack of examples of "verdrâtitude"!
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