alternating traffic: against pollution or pump money?

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SixK
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alternating traffic: against pollution or pump money?




by SixK » 18/03/14, 01:59

This "alternating traffic" day is a magnificent jerk!

4800 PV at 22 Euro.
A measure that arrives "as if by chance" at the end of the pollution peak (so too late! But lower pollution guaranteed), but has a week of municipal elections ...

Guess what ? Parisians (the real ones) those who have the means to live intramural, who go to work by bicycle (or possibly by metro) are delighted!

During this time we piss off all the others, who have no other choice but to take their car to go to work.


How to explain this pollution?

An evoked track speaks of coal plants in Germany !!!! ;)


I agree that there is too much pollution in Paris linked to the car.
That the particles emitted by diesel vehicles are probably a scourge that we will pay for in the long term.
That solutions must be found, etc.

But stop making fun of the mouth of the world by using pseudo measures to 'cure' the consequences of a policy of hyper-concentration of activity!
Let our dear ministers take care of the causes.

Parisian, good luck to you ... (70Km / h on the Periph, Alternating traffic, The next avowed stage is the red lights on the periphery !!!)
By the way, the mayor of Paris would have signed to renew part of its fleet of buses by buses ... DIESEL !!!!!!! ;) (but beware those pollute it less than the old ones !!!!)


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by chatelot16 » 18/03/14, 09:56

alternating traffic against pollution on the day the weather announces an improvement! really characterized incompetence!

this day has disturbed everyone and will not even be a useful experience, since the wind had much more effect

maybe the weather forecast changed between the day of this decision and the application, they could simply cancel to take into account the wind that was coming
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by Janic » 18/03/14, 10:32

an old saying goes: "you can't have your cake and eat it too"Large agglomerations have certain advantages, but also disadvantages linked to them.
The measure itself (apart from the pollution side which alone was highlighted) showed an indisputable relief on the flow of traffic, which would justify, in itself, that this measure is applied permanently with a necessary adaptation of sufficient parking, intermediate transport, etc. on the outskirts of large cities.
It is therefore a vicious circle where car users do not find intermediate means and where this massive use of the car makes these same means unnecessary.
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by Did67 » 18/03/14, 12:18

I'm going to put my usual "anti-moan" and "anti-all" verse !!!

a) What we regret is that the measure was not taken before, indeed !!!

But would you have agreed more on Thursday and Friday ??? I wonder, given the angle of attack of your words.

A straight answer?

b) It shows what: how unprepared the government was for what was sure to happen, which is managed in many countries or cities in Europe ...

On "econology", should we hope that the Government continues to do nothing?

c) Because:

1) air pollution continues to increase, contrary to what everyone thinks! And some argue as arguments.

I printed a small table on Alsace: the number of days per year when the "recommendation level" in PM10 has been exceeded. And see, good people:

2004:1
2005:1
2006:2
2007:17
2008:16
2009:23
2010:18
2011:12
2012:70
2013:89
2014: already 17

So I think doing nothing is criminal.

Of course, this first affects children, children, asthma sufferers, heart patients ...

We just let them die!

The model goes straight into the wall and nothing should be done if I understand correctly.

[the medais are not clear between the levels of particles in the air and the emission rates of vehicles, which is reduced: each vehicle - new - is cleaner; but there are more and more, the because is aging again - sales in crisis ...]

2) The history of Germany is a farce from the far right and from Figaro Magazine. The done, it is well on the foreigner:

- the prevailing winds, in the Paris region, go in the other direction, and we pollute them our pollution

- the power stations pose a big problem of CO², but the particles are filtered ...

- there may be diluted pollution, as background noise, coming from Germany; but if you look at different sensors on the same day, you will see that it "blazes" along the ring roads and highways!

http://www.atmo-alsace.net/site/Donnees ... ct-15.html

Stg A35 is the measuring station located in the middle of the interchange
Northeast Alsace is the closest to Germany. Or Mulhouse in the South ...

Follow, read, reflect and conclude. Or sing the song of the idiots for whom any problem is due ... to the neighbors!
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by Christophe » 18/03/14, 13:34

Did67 wrote:1) air pollution continues to increase, contrary to what everyone thinks! And some argue as arguments.

I printed a small table on Alsace: the number of days per year when the "recommendation level" in PM10 has been exceeded. And see, good people:

2004:1
2005:1
2006:2
2007:17
2008:16
2009:23
2010:18
2011:12
2012:70
2013:89
2014: already 17

So I think doing nothing is criminal.

Of course, this first affects children, children, asthma sufferers, heart patients ...

We just let them die!

The model goes straight into the wall and nothing should be done if I understand correctly.

[the medais are not clear between the levels of particles in the air and the emission rates of vehicles, which is reduced: each vehicle - new - is cleaner; but there are more and more, the because is aging again - sales in crisis ...]


"Interesting" : Shock: : Shock: this progression .... Thank you didi!

The cars are not, supposedly, more and more clean ??

Does the article provide any explanations?

In this report I found health cost / pollution level curves (years before we talked about it in the media ...): https://www.econologie.com/les-transport ... es-27.html
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by Did67 » 18/03/14, 14:11

Christophe wrote:
The cars are not, supposedly, more and more clean ??




Yes Yes ! I thought I wrote it. New cars have lower emission rates, especially thanks to DPF ... This is why some journalists, not very clear, have wrongly asserted that the rate of particles in the air has decreased (confusing " emission rate ", at the exhaust and rate in the air ...).

but:

a) the renewal of the fleet is very slow; due to the crisis, the park is starting to age again and this concerns more and more the 1st generation Diesel (TD before the TDI; which smoke as soon as you press a little rub on the mushroom in the acceleration phase) that you "drag" in length; these are particularly "emitters" of particles!

b) Diesel dominates even more because it still dominates the market in France

c) there are more and more cars

http://www.lefigaro.fr/societes/2013/06 ... eillir.php

[understand the famous: "the growth of the fleet slows down" = there are more and more cars, but this increase is decreasing]

d) and truck traffic continues to explode in the face of the rail freight crisis in France!
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by Did67 » 18/03/14, 14:21

For those who are interested in NOx, the curve today, with the 2 stations "going out" of the row = edge of the motorway

http://www.atmo-alsace.net/site/Donnees ... ct-15.html

Are we also going to accuse Germany?

That said, tendentially, NOx is "less worse", in number of days of exceeding the recommendation threshold:

2004:1
2005:5
2006:3
2007:10
2008:10
2009:13
2010:11
2011:15
2012:14
2013:8
2014: so far 2
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by Did67 » 18/03/14, 17:06

Too easy to say that there is nothing we can do!

According to the newspaper Le Monde:


The fight against diesel in Tokyo was carried out in a hussar. Fruit of a strong political will, it has produced spectacular results. The concentration of fine particles (PM2,5) decreased in the Japanese capital by 55% between 2001 and 2011. The sky has cleared to the point that Tokyoites can admire the elegant silhouette of Mount Fuji more than a hundred days a year , against twenty in the 1960s.
When the amount of fine particles increases - this was the case in February -, it is because of the pollution in China that the winds carry to the Archipelago. A badly lived situation, given the efforts made.

It was in August 1999 that the city, under the impetus of its new governor, Shintaro Ishihara, launched a campaign called "Say no to diesel". At the time, 70% of suspended particles came from diesel vehicles. The writer who became a politician inaugurated his campaign with a televised press conference during which he brandished a plastic bottle with blackish content, a mixture of diesel engine emissions, which causes health problems: asthma , bronchitis or cancer.
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by Did67 » 18/03/14, 17:10

I note that if it were done here, in Paris, "econology" would be flooded with "protests" on the subject of "the State which fills the pockets on the backs of motorists" or other understatements which testify to the same " depth of reflection "[reread the amount of the fines above - 3 euros! ; the deadlines left for bringing the parks up to standard; cameras for surveillance - what a cop! -; calls not to drive, millions of letters - harassment! - and ... the results obtained; short, what barbarians these Japanese!]

[To avoid being misunderstood: an understatement is a "rhetorical figure of weakening the expression of thought to imply more than is said." according to Larousse online.]
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by Ahmed » 18/03/14, 20:15

I understand that individuals feel targeted by a reversal of the policy regarding the use of the automobile.

Constantly officially encouraged for ages, made necessary because of designed urbanization according to of the car, oriented towards diesel by taxation and unconditional support for Peugeot, the ineffectiveness of public transport (blocked in traffic) and the dangerousness of the use of bicycles, it would be unwelcome, but it is obviously most likely, to blame the simple user for shedding heavy responsibilities ...

Moreover, it is not at all a question of breaking with previous views, rather of reorienting the market in the direction of the renewal of the fleet, of its electrification, all things that please builders who know how to find ears in high places very attentive.
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