The Little Ice Age and the Gulf Stream Related?

Warming and Climate Change: causes, consequences, analysis ... Debate on CO2 and other greenhouse gas.
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 79287
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 11024

The Little Ice Age and the Gulf Stream Related?




by Christophe » 30/11/06, 18:39

We already suspected a little ... We begin to have the evidence ....

This is a scenario that some people fear will happen with global warming and the melting of Arctic ice: a slowdown in the Gulf Stream in the Atlantic and a less temperate climate in Europe. According to the work of David Lund's team, this is what happened during a well-known cold period, the Little Ice Age, between 1200 and 1850.

The Gulf Stream is an ocean current that brings warmer waters into the North Atlantic and thus contributes to the temperate climate that Europe experiences, despite its latitude.

Lund (Caltech, USA) and his colleagues collected marine sediments in the Florida Strait, where the Gulf Stream enters the North Atlantic Ocean. The researchers studied the isotopic composition of foraminifers, tiny marine animals whose shells show the temperature and salinity of the water at the time it was formed.

According to their analyzes, published in the journal Nature, the ocean current had slowed by 10% at the beginning of the Little Ice Age and had recovered its normal speed in the middle of the 19th century.

The disaster scenarios related to a complete shutdown of the Gulf Stream are dismissed by climatologists. Most believe that marine current will not stop but may slow down. However, we do not know how much and when it can happen.

CD
(30 / 11 / 06)



Source: http://sciences.nouvelobs.com/sci_20061130.OBS0990.html
Last edited by Christophe the 20 / 01 / 07, 12: 03, 1 edited once.
0 x
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 79287
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 11024




by Christophe » 30/11/06, 18:42

I recall that the thermal power of the Gulf Stream is equivalent to 1 000 000 nuclear reactors (approximately) ...
0 x
FPLM
Éconologue good!
Éconologue good!
posts: 306
Registration: 04/02/10, 23:47
x 1




by FPLM » 15/02/10, 16:21

Here, on futura-bidule, they say that the gulf stream is invariable but that it is the thermohaline current that can vary according to the temperature and the salinity.
Green cabbage and green cabbage?
0 x
"If you are not careful, the newspapers will eventually make you hate the oppressed and the oppressors worship. "
Malcolm X
oiseautempete
Grand Econologue
Grand Econologue
posts: 848
Registration: 19/11/09, 13:24




by oiseautempete » 15/02/10, 16:53

FPLM wrote:Here, on futura-bidule, they say that the gulf stream is invariable but that it is the thermohaline current that can vary according to the temperature and the salinity.
Green cabbage and green cabbage?


If they say that it is because they did not understand anything about the thermodynamic machine that is the gulf stream ... in any case the Norwegians who monitor this current closely, we noticed a clear slowdown in the flow, probably due to the massive melting of polar ice which "lightens" the sea water, less salty and less cold and which therefore sinks less quickly towards the depths: it is a bit like a giant thermosyphon, so everything is linked. ..it is even possible that the gulf stream weakens much more, see changes direction ... it is the same for other currents ... marine and atmospheric also ...
In addition to "accidental" causes (giant eruptions, asteroids, giant fires ...), the various ice ages are apparently due to solar minimuns (solar cycles of 100 years and more): when there are no more spots, the sun's magnetic activity is weak and its energy emission ~ 3% lower than "normal": we are currently in such a minimum, which also lasts abnormally long (nearly 10 years already while the standard c ' is 2-3 years), but its cooling effect is canceled out by the greenhouse effect ... when the sun starts up again, we can expect a marked hardening of extreme weather phenomena and extremes of t ° ... Paradoxically , global warming can perfectly well cause glaciation (due to the effects explained above), as was illustrated in the film "the day after", and according to the most recent discoveries (ice analysis and others), this phenomenon which was believed to be spread over several centuries, would actually be very fast: only a decade ... well in the film it's much faster still : Lol:
0 x
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 79287
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 11024




by Christophe » 15/02/10, 17:03

FPLM wrote:Here, on futura-bidule, they say that the gulf stream is invariable but that it is the thermohaline current that can vary according to the temperature and the salinity.
Green cabbage and green cabbage?


What is this bullshit? The gulf stream ca would not be a thermohaline current "by chance" or at least the effect of a thermohaline circulation?

You still fell on pignoufs it looks like ... : Cheesy: : Cheesy:

They would not confuse with the Jet Stream? : Mrgreen: : Lol:
0 x
FPLM
Éconologue good!
Éconologue good!
posts: 306
Registration: 04/02/10, 23:47
x 1




by FPLM » 15/02/10, 19:00

Thank you oiseautempete, that's what I thought I understood.
That said, according to the oceanographer Bruno Voiturier that I quote, the gulf stream can not stop and although being an actor of the thermohalin flow, its existence is independent (understands who can):
(Source: http://www.futura-sciences.com/fr/doc/t/climatologie/d/le-gulf-stream-peut-il-sarreter_637/c3/221/p2/)
So, can the Gulf Stream stop? The question, frequently asked by journalists, makes the scientist uncomfortable because if he answers "no" he states a scientific truth but unfortunately he does not answer the question actually posed concerning a phenomenon in which actually participates the Gulf Stream but which does not condition its existence: the famous "treadmill" resulting from what is called the "thermohaline circulation". If he answers "yes" he better satisfies the curiosity of the journalist but contributes to the myth of the Gulf Stream by maintaining the fiction of a Gulf Stream river that ".. takes its source in the Gulf of Mexico and throws itself into the Arctic Ocean "as described by Maury and amalgamating Gulf Stream = thermohaline circulation with the corollary that the second can only be interrupted if the Gulf Stream itself stops. Which is wrong.

Beyond the fact that its explanation is not clear, I do not see any valid argument justifying the invariance of the gulf stream.
How a consequence, a part, of a whole can not be modified by the modification of this whole, knowing that this whole is not invariable? (and besides, nothing is invariable in the universe, not even the latter)
This statement is questionable and contradictory. Unless I did not understand it.
Yet, according to other sources, the gulf stream is a part, a consequence, of the global oceanic thermohaline current.
Excerpt on wikipedia:
The role of these convective loops is essential because it allows the transport of heat, released in the atmosphere, from the equator to the poles. If this transfer did not exist, it would be warmer at the equator and colder at high latitudes. The Gulf Stream and Kuro Shivo warm the waters respectively off Europe and Japan. Oceanic convection also plays an important role in the carbon cycle. Diving marine waters causes a large amount of carbon dioxide (CO2) that has been captured from the atmosphere and is dissolved in it. This carbon dioxide is partially returned to the atmosphere when the deep water resurfaces [1]


Another extract on wikipedia:
The Gulf Stream is an ocean current that rises between Florida and the Bahamas and dilutes in the Atlantic Ocean towards the longitude of Greenland. Its name is abusively used to designate the North Atlantic drift, or even the whole surface circulation of the North Atlantic Ocean.

And here is the confusion that the author is trying to describe, still according to wikipedia:
The North Atlantic Drift is a warm and powerful ocean current that extends the Gulf Stream to the northeast. It splits in two west of Ireland. One of the branches (the current of the Canaries) goes to the south while the other continues along the coasts of north-west of Europe where it has a considerable influence on the climate by warming it. Other branches include the Irminger Current and the Norwegian Current. Originally, it is an extension of the Gulf Stream that goes further north and flows into the Arctic Ocean. Climate change, and in particular global warming, can have a significant effect on the North Atlantic drift.

Pignouf or informant?
0 x
"If you are not careful, the newspapers will eventually make you hate the oppressed and the oppressors worship. "

Malcolm X
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 79287
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 11024




by Christophe » 15/02/10, 19:04

No poisoning but there is no worse than a scientist who does dogmatism ...

No need for it to stop to have a big effect on the climate ... it's like health: should it die to decide that a product is bad?

If the reduced GS of 10% ca will be the equivalent of 10% of 1 000 000 of nuclear reactor be 100 000 reactors ...

Number of reactor that humanity will of course build on Earth NEVER and that is more than the energy consumption of all humanity ...

There is roughly 500 reactor in the world today.
0 x
FPLM
Éconologue good!
Éconologue good!
posts: 306
Registration: 04/02/10, 23:47
x 1




by FPLM » 15/02/10, 19:24

Just, this is one of the topics that first alerted me to the topics of ecology, I was still spotty at the time. The consequences of its slowdown are so frightening.
I remember that in the 90 years or even before, the climatologists, by their forecasts, had raised the most stupid and the most brilliant ideas that 2 had marked my mind.
Paul Crutzen, Nobel Prize in chemistry, proposed in the last alternative to cool the planet by ejecting several million tons of sulphites in the upper atmosphere.
Canadian scientists (not sure) had thought to cover the surface of melted ice in the pole by a network of opaque and white tarpaulins at a certain height of the water through floating piloris, something like that.
I'll let you guess which is stupid and which is great. : Cheesy:
0 x
"If you are not careful, the newspapers will eventually make you hate the oppressed and the oppressors worship. "

Malcolm X
FPLM
Éconologue good!
Éconologue good!
posts: 306
Registration: 04/02/10, 23:47
x 1




by FPLM » 15/02/10, 19:25

Christophe wrote:No poisoning but there is no worse than a scientist who does dogmatism ...

Let's say pignouf then : Mrgreen:
0 x
"If you are not careful, the newspapers will eventually make you hate the oppressed and the oppressors worship. "

Malcolm X
User avatar
zorglub
I posted 500 messages!
I posted 500 messages!
posts: 501
Registration: 24/11/09, 10:12




by zorglub » 21/02/10, 11:02

and the Swiss have tried to cover glaciers so that they do not melt (summer of course)!
the slowing down of the golf stream .. this is the article that I also read but I do not remember in which journal (S&V or another scientific magazine)
0 x

 


  • Similar topics
    Replies
    views
    Last message

Back to "Climate Change: CO2, warming, greenhouse effect ..."

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : A.D. 44 and 108 guests