A first RBI (Unconditional Basic Income) paid in Switzerland!

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A first RBI (Unconditional Basic Income) paid in Switzerland!




by Christophe » 22/05/16, 23:38

The first basic income paid to a Zurich woman: http://www.20min.ch/ro/economie/news/st ... e-29290787

Well it's not won yet ...
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Re: A first RBI (Unconditional Basic Income) paid in Switzerland!




by Obamot » 23/05/16, 00:18

Well we only vote on 5 June, the Swiss-totos are always ahead of the French? : Mrgreen: (Swiss-totos = Swiss-Germans)

I said that the votes were rigged (if at least ...) :D

I feel that I am going to move to Zürich (pronounce "tzûûrriiichh" with the postilions coming out of the beak, the finger on the seam) : Mrgreen:
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Re: A first RBI (Unconditional Basic Income) paid in Switzerland!




by Christophe » 23/05/16, 00:33

Yes the title is a bit misleading (it is done on purpose : Mrgreen: ) ... must read the article to understand :)
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Re: A first RBI (Unconditional Basic Income) paid in Switzerland!




by Christophe » 06/06/16, 23:59

Over 70% rejected by the referendum ... hey shit ... we're not ready yet ...
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Re: A first RBI (Unconditional Basic Income) paid in Switzerland!




by Ahmed » 07/06/16, 11:29

The greatest interest of the UK or RBI is, for me, formal: it translates, on the one hand, an awareness of the impossibility of continuing to form a society if we do not take note of the ever greater contradiction between the massive exclusion from work and the fact that men always relate to each other through work and money; on the other hand, an unperceived reality, which is that, as of now, a growing number of people are no longer paid (whether they work or not) by the functioning of the economy as they imagine it, but by a financial industry operating more and more in weightlessness based on a resolution of the current contradictions, today insoluble, but supposed to unravel miraculously in a more than hypothetical future * (since these contradictions increase).

Of course, the UK is not a lasting solution, since it only represents an epiphenomenon of a particular phase in the evolution of the so-called market economy system. it only appears attractive if one confines oneself to a superficial or partial analysis of the economy.

* It is exactly the same mechanism that played out in the subprime crisis, although on a different scale: the reduction in the purchasing power of "average" American households pushed them into debt (the banks are not there. not for nothing either!), which led to a much more significant drop in subsequent purchasing power (slight decrease in income or, at best, stagnation, minus the loan repayment drafts => insolvency and impossibility of realize the depreciated real estate capital). the loan mechanism constitutes an interesting lever arm only in certain favorable cases; otherwise, it is only a temporary palliative which has very harmful effects in the medium term.
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Re: A first RBI (Unconditional Basic Income) paid in Switzerland!




by Obamot » 07/06/16, 12:03

Christophe wrote:Over 70% rejected by the referendum ... hey shit ... we're not ready yet ...

... you mean it's a fantastic score yes! That he would have thought that 30% of the population would vote for the idea (not me).
... I'm not talking about all those who didn't vote because they couldn't believe it, nor those who voted "no" because they were completely disillusioned!

At the beginning too, in many issues such as nuclear, membership in the UN or public works projects sticks tunnels considered expensive, there is always approx. 70% rejection. I have no doubt that with a change in the economy, the idea will pass. Switzerland had initially refused to join the UN because it did not want to give up its neutrality, but ultimately it passed the ramp. Anyway, as an "intermediate solution" to a larger change in society, what other solution? I hardly see any! And as Ahmed suggests, it will pass because it hides the shit (unemployment revealing much deeper structural problems) at the cat (the "good" people ...) It will pass, it's just a matter of time.

What to see is the proportionality by Canton by Canton:

Proportion yes VS no.jpeg


And there rather an excellent surprise because the Swiss-French-speaking VS Swiss-Germanic divide does not appear! This is excellent news which proves that the electorate will not always be unanimously hostile to the idea. Have even seen cantons rather close to the Germanic bosom, being less "anti" there than others ... (Jura, Neuchâtel, Bâle-Ville) As for not seeing: Bern, Schaffhausen, Solothurn nor Zurich in the camps of ultra-opponents, here the (good) surprise is total! (But this is only a modest interpretation of the results ...)
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Re: A first RBI (Unconditional Basic Income) paid in Switzerland!




by Obamot » 07/06/16, 16:13

PS: and it must be said that I have not read anything at all in the press to distinguish between the current situation vs RBI, which means that in general, the concept could have been misunderstood. The RBI is not "taking it easy" ...! It is a new distribution of resources, a redistribution of "social assistance" which does not weigh more in the state budget (in the long term once "the confidence returned " among citizens: perhaps much less), precisely to stop making citizens "beggars". Precisely to get out of the outdated concept of "social assistance".
What would have been the result if it had been a "national issue" (and is). A much better score, certainly, which too bad, would not have pleased those who resist change.
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Re: A first RBI (Unconditional Basic Income) paid in Switzerland!




by pedrodelavega » 07/06/16, 19:06

The project was fishing a bit on funding I think.
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Re: A first RBI (Unconditional Basic Income) paid in Switzerland!




by Obamot » 07/06/16, 20:20

Why? Because a more equitable treatment of individual cases and above all necessary structural reforms should depend on financial means to be carried out? So subjected to all kinds of speculation in defining "purpose" to make the packaging enticing? Honestly, I can hardly think that this should be a sine qua non for "success".

The simple fact of seeking a "success" is it not already apocryphal in itself in the process (or then carried to be it, since on the one hand the RBI is only a crutch and that on the other apart from the RBI is nothing, since it is the needs that make the RBI affirm itself as a necessity), so there is no need for money to come to this conclusion. Finally boo (!) If there are any who want to think that it would have been a question of money ...

On the other hand, we can possibly already see the emergence of other reasons - less superficial - which more surely explain the reason for this half-failure ... Among other things:
failing to explain how the RBI would not affect the motivation of people who would use it, (already because of the fact that everyone would be entitled to it, that would no longer constitute a particular stake) but especially by the fact that since we are not in a "planned economy"(in the Stalinist sense of the term, since Trotsky suggested this in a democracy ...) and that from this fact, it would be quite the opposite as long as culturally in our societies, citizens are in general"naturally * consented submission seekers"(in the sense of affiliation and commitment / mobilization towards the group), since it is the theoretically accepted means the best to achieve socially [...] more prosaically, the RBI would like to leave to the citizens,"the life they want to choose " (what's up Dr.?)

* In inverted commas, because just like in communist ideology, it can be nourished by beautiful illusions!
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Re: A first RBI (Unconditional Basic Income) paid in Switzerland!




by Christophe » 08/06/16, 12:56

pedrodelavega wrote:The project was fishing a bit on funding I think.


a) Less and less true if we make the overall assessment more and more detailed ... but the majority of people are unable to make savings at N + 2

b) There are still new taxes to put in place: the Tobin tax to start ...

c) The RBI could revive a generalized economy at half mast, the first years may be in deficit, as is the national education budget

Starting from c) I wonder if the RBI is ultimately an econological idea ... because if it is to relaunch "stupid and nasty" consumption ... then it is better to remain in crisis ... for the environment j hear!
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