Stove of all kinds adapted hair cell

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Grelinette
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Stove of all kinds adapted hair cell




by Grelinette » 16/08/15, 19:51

Hello everybody

We are planning to change our wood heating system in the main living room of the house (about 50 m²) by another more suitable.

Currently we use an old insert (in principle provided for a chimney) placed on a support.

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It indicates a power 9 kw and has a blower that produces a flow of hot air that heats quickly when it is lit: the air is sucked at the base of the insert and passes through metal tubes above the fireplace and then comes out at the top of the the insert.
The blower has 2 speeds, it is activated either manually (switch), or automatically when the temperature of the insert reaches a threshold.

Given the fact that we have a lot of wood available, we think that a wood stove will be the most economical.

Only here .... with the approach of autumn, sellers of all hair and all stoves (wood) begin to expose their models, and the choice becomes a thorny hair!

- First there are several labels: "Flamme Verte", "BBC", etc.

then various parameters:

- the power in Kw
(it is advisable to choose the power according to the surface to be heated, ie 1 Kw by 10 m²)

- the yield, which goes roughly from 70 to 80%

- The "Double Combustion"

- The "Clean Glass" system

- the volume of the hearth (size of the logs)

- the material: Cast iron / Steel

- the diameter of the flue outlet nozzle, coming out from above or behind


etc.

Things get more complicated when you read on the flyers that some powerful stoves have low efficiency, and vice versa.

Or that little powerful stoves are recommended for a large surface to heat, and vice versa.

In short, not easy to navigate in this forest of stoves whose prices range from 300 € to more than 3000 €!

What do you advise us not to be mowed?
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by Ahmed » 16/08/15, 21:17

That powerful stoves can have little efficiency is not surprising: it was the case of these inexpensive inserts which were sold a few decades ago, with the vogue of electric heating (ultra "cheap" construction for new first-time buyers, stuck between the repayment of the loan and the EDF bill) ...

The current wood stoves have made quite a lot of progress in terms of efficiency and the small fireplaces * 33 cm logs are for many: the high combustion temperature, as well as a good control of air intake ensure combustion excellent gases (the fraction of the wood most difficult to burn properly); on the other hand, the efficiency of thermal exchanges remains lagging behind, for many reasons ...
The ideal stove should be slim in size and broad shoulders, ie, associate a small focus to a large exchange surface at the top; however, for commercial reasons (design, clutter) as for economic reasons in manufacturing, there is little chance of a change.

The only solution would be to build this stove yourself ... 8)
In the same vein, but easier, the rocket stove is a good stove base with a good performance due to its burning; for this operation to be viable and optimized, it is supposed to be associated with a mass exchanger, to see on the sites and following the best practices... Of course, one must appreciate (or get used to?) To the aesthetics, say, special, of the thing! :P

* Despite larger glass doors that are somewhat at odds with this good overall design of the fireplace.
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by Remundo » 17/08/15, 08:56

and the hair to scratch? :P
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by Grelinette » 17/08/15, 09:13

Remundo wrote:and the hair to scratch? :P

The expression is a little pulled by the hair, and even a little furious, but I was waiting for that one ... and I wondered who would do it! : Cheesy:
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by dirk pitt » 17/08/15, 11:14

my advice: take a weak power: rather 1kw for 12 14m2 livable.
anyone who has ever used a wood stove can say it: it works more often at minimum than at maximum.
result, poor combustion, blackened glass, dirty chimney, etc.
so try to find a small power stove.
inconvenient, which says small power says small dimension of logs. if you make your own wood, you can cut to the desired size.
on the other hand, do not ignore the double combustion: it is on the one hand, much better in performance and also, it avoids fouling the chimney.
I have a weakness for Jotul (I have an old F400) that make poeles of very good quality and to work well at different power.
look for example the F105: 2.4 to 7kw
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by chatelot16 » 17/08/15, 11:26

I agree with Ahmed: the good stove should have a small fireplace and a large exchange area to not let out the heat by the fireplace ... it is done in boiler but I do not see it in stove

there is of course the solution to build it be even

there is also the solution to buy a large low-end stove and reduce the size of the hearth by refractory brick: the fire will be warmer more complete and the gas will have the place to burn leaving the small focus in the rest of the stove

but distrust with a pile of frying pan really badly difficult to change

radical solution for a home-made: fireplace in the form of inverted pyramid, it is filled according to the power that we see: so it is a small fire well concentrated even low power, and it does not prevent filling higher if you want to increase the power: it's a good focus on a wide range of power
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by Did67 » 17/08/15, 12:47

dirk pitt wrote:my advice: take a weak power: rather 1kw for 12 14m2 livable.
anyone who has ever used a wood stove can say it: it works more often at minimum than at maximum.
result, poor combustion, blackened glass, dirty chimney, etc.
so try to find a small power stove.
inconvenient, which says small power says small dimension of logs. if you make your own wood, you can cut to the desired size.
on the other hand, do not ignore the double combustion: it is on the one hand, much better in performance and also, it avoids fouling the chimney.
I have a weakness for Jotul (I have an old F400) that make poeles of very good quality and to work well at different power.
look for example the F105: 2.4 to 7kw


I agree with dirk.

I add: a small stove (not too small anyway so as not to find yourself in the situation where you cannot heat!) Will be used at "higher heat", therefore better performance and infinitely pollution by emissions! And less fire!

To know also: the powers are quite "indicative". One can easily "pull" a little more from a stove, by running it with a fire a little brighter than the standard fixed for the tests, without making it "blush"!

Finally, if it is the main heating device, used continuously, it may be interesting to think of stoves having "masses" to smooth the heat emission. They are "slow" at startup, so less suitable for intermittent use, with just a few "flares" ... But they still heat up when they are turned off. They never have that feeling of overheating if we put a log too much or delayed closing the draft ...

It's the famous mass stoves, the famous Alsatian "Kachelofen", or in a design version, for example the Tulikivi [well, I imagine that costs a candy? But once in a lifetime?] ...
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by Ahmed » 17/08/15, 17:37

Dirk Pitt, you write:
Disadvantage, which says small power says small dimension of logs.

It is true that the 33 cm cut represents a constraint, apparently, but it is the condition of a good combustion and the result is that a well-burned 33 log heats about as much as it does one of 50 with poorer combustion.

This means that for a fairly equivalent heater, the number of saw cuts is identical and the amount of wood less ...

The same observation applies (in more accentuated, it seems to me) between the boilers with logs in 50 and the boilers "barrel" which accepted logs of 1m.
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by chatelot16 » 17/08/15, 19:19

there is no 36 solution, to make a small fire you need small log ... if 33 is too big it takes 25

at home it's even simpler, it's wood chips, it allows to dose well without asking questions ... it also allows to mix everything I grind to brush the garden

why do you need short logs? all the wood must be in the hearth, no long wooden stick is needed, one end burns in the hearth and the other end does not burn, but it warms up combustible tar that does not burn and make smoked

the mass stove is a solution to make a powerful fire once in a while and have a continuous heating thanks to the mass that has been heated, but it is not my preferred solution: I find it too big ... I find the fireplace has more convenient insert for now

for the near future it is the gazogene: combustion performance better than the simple hearth and possibility to burn all plastic waste without pollution! better than the incineration plant ... but it's for the future, not yet commercially available
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by Grelinette » 17/08/15, 19:57

Another point to clarify:

some stoves offer the Double combustion, the other Post combustion ... but I have not seen a stove offering 2.

Is it the same thing and what does this one or these terms mean?
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