Wind and heat

Oil, gas, coal, nuclear (PWR, EPR, hot fusion, ITER), gas and coal thermal power plants, cogeneration, tri-generation. Peakoil, depletion, economics, technologies and geopolitical strategies. Prices, pollution, economic and social costs ...
User avatar
Grelinette
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 2007
Registration: 27/08/08, 15:42
Location: Provence
x 272

Wind and heat




by Grelinette » 07/12/08, 16:42

I tinkered with a wind turbine in my garden that works well (it runs continuously!). The idea now is to couple it to a system so that it is useful for something!

By the way, the idea of ​​a multi-purpose wind turbine seems interesting to me: electricity, pumping, heating, etc ..., in short a "Swiss Army knife"!

For now considering that winter has arrived my concern is to generate heat to heat my house because I do not have heating apart from a convector (of 2000 w!).

I thought that a piston that compresses air like a bicycle pump could already create a current of hot air that I would just have to bring to my house (10 m away) , or recover air passing through an underground pipe like a Canadian well. What do you think ?

If not, would anyone have other ideas for tinkering with a simple wind powered system that can generate a current of hot air?
0 x
Olivier22
I understand econologic
I understand econologic
posts: 178
Registration: 06/11/08, 16:41
Location: 35 / 22
x 6




by Olivier22 » 07/12/08, 16:55

Hello
Original your initiative, but I do not think that transporting air heated by compression by the wind turbine to your house is a very effective means (heat losses in the duct + compression efficiency) ... To better use the heat compression, that compression should happen directly in your house

If you want to use the wind turbine as the only source of heat (not just as a pump), electric transport seems simpler and more efficient.

But in my opinion, the most energy efficient way would be to use this wind turbine as a simple heat pump, but that definitely complicates the matter, and then I don't know if the performance could be good whatever either the wind. (someone who knows about heat pumps will be able to inform you better than me)
0 x
User avatar
Grelinette
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 2007
Registration: 27/08/08, 15:42
Location: Provence
x 272




by Grelinette » 07/12/08, 17:58

I think that going back to the design of purely mechanical systems (as imagined by the "old ones") is now preferable especially for a private handyman.

Moreover, I do not necessarily agree to always consider the argument of "optimal performance": even if a system is not at 100% of its efficiency, as long as it provides an acceptable response to my needs, it's already 100% satisfaction!

For example, while looking for information on wind turbines I often read that old wind turbines had a very low efficiency and were therefore not interesting. This is surely true except that they met 100% of the need for which they were designed and our (individual) needs have not changed. Near my home, several peasants have not succumbed to the sirens of the "more efficient" and kept their old wind turbine to irrigate their crops and it seems that in the end they did not make a bad choice. Besides, if we had to abandon all the systems that do not have an optimal performance, we would have to do without a lot of things ... starting with the cars!

All that to say that in my garden I have a wind turbine that has been running continuously for several months and that even if I do not use all of the energy, if the little that I recover allows me to heat myself little is already good! :D

So ... any ideas to offer me? .. I'm interested even if it's not yet the best of the maximum of the ideal of perfect optimization ... I just want a few more degrees, not baking crematorium! : Cheesy:
0 x
Olivier22
I understand econologic
I understand econologic
posts: 178
Registration: 06/11/08, 16:41
Location: 35 / 22
x 6




by Olivier22 » 07/12/08, 18:07

OK, your optics is not the search for efficiency but for simplicity! Okay.
I was just talking about optimization because heating requires a lot of energy, and a wind turbine provides quite little.
You may not be able to heat more than one room at a time ...

So for me maximum simplicity = electric wind turbine + Joule effect heating
(simple to make, simple to install, little mechanical, little maintenance)
0 x
User avatar
loop
Grand Econologue
Grand Econologue
posts: 816
Registration: 03/10/07, 06:33
Location: Picardie




by loop » 07/12/08, 22:11

Bonsoir

Little note:
It is not because the wind turbine turns properly when empty that we can hope to obtain exploitable power because to extract energy from a rotor is to apply a braking torque on it.

It is certain that directly using the mechanical energy generated by the rotor is preferable, but it is also because the electricity is versatile that we rather install wind turbines.

Heating from mechanical work, generally we try to avoid it because it is synonymous with losses. Example of displacements with friction in the air, on land, in water.
So why not a friction system with parts that will generate heat?

A+
0 x
User avatar
Grelinette
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 2007
Registration: 27/08/08, 15:42
Location: Provence
x 272




by Grelinette » 07/12/08, 22:36

Good evening Looping

I agree with you that a vacuum movement will not necessarily be interesting if we add an energy recovery system, but my reasoning is as follows:
optimizing a system means saying that we will produce as much as possible and as quickly as possible. In the case of a wind turbine installed in a place where there is always a little wind, I tell myself that since it rotates continuously, the production can be smoothed over time and not concentrated for a short time. In other words, you have to find a way to create and accumulate the little energy produced over a long period, which in the end is the same as producing a lot in a short time! (a bit like kinetic energy: a small mass at high speed at the same energy as a large mass at low speed).

In addition, "taking the time" corresponds to a reflection that opposes the current ubiquitous forward rush that often ends up going into the wall.

Otherwise, produce heat by a friction system with parts that will give off heat ... why not, but there for once, there will be more friction forces and surely faster wear.

(ps: it has nothing to do with the subject but "looping" was also the name of one of my little ponies! ...)
0 x
User avatar
Gregconstruct
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 1781
Registration: 07/11/07, 19:55
Location: Amay Belgium




by Gregconstruct » 08/12/08, 11:06

Grelinette wrote:In addition, "taking the time" corresponds to a reflection that opposes the current ubiquitous forward rush that often ends up going into the wall.


Totally agree with you Grelinette!

Welcome to Econologie : Mrgreen:
0 x
Every action counts for our planet !!!
User avatar
loop
Grand Econologue
Grand Econologue
posts: 816
Registration: 03/10/07, 06:33
Location: Picardie




by loop » 08/12/08, 12:48

Hello

optimizing a system means saying that we will produce as much as possible and as quickly as possible


There is no incompatibility between the search for the best yield and the efficiency over the life of the system.

What does "as quickly as possible" mean?

A properly designed wind turbine will recover the maximum energy in a given period and according to the wind potential of a site.
Now there is nothing to prevent a basic system from trying to be optimal. But what does it cost to optimize a wind turbine? For an aerogenerator, it is simply the design of a rotor which will turn at the right speed, for the most energetic average wind.
If the speed of the rotor does not matter it will not cost anything (if not a little elbow grease) to make correct blades rather than using simple planks.

For the transformation part of a mechanical movement into heat, I was already asked the question, to which I did not find an answer:
When you stir a liquid, do you heat it?

A+
0 x
Olivier22
I understand econologic
I understand econologic
posts: 178
Registration: 06/11/08, 16:41
Location: 35 / 22
x 6




by Olivier22 » 08/12/08, 19:14

In the vast majority of cases, it is both more profitable and more ecological to spend a little time on the design and optimization of a system to make it effective, rather than doing the simplest and drawing from it almost nothing...

Certainly, producing little over a lot of time is the same as producing a lot over a short time, but who talks to you about little time? Since your wind turbine is well winded, as much as it produces a lot permanently, right? ...

loop wrote:When you stir a liquid, do you heat it?
Yes.
It is even through this phenomenon that the first measurements of the thermal capacity of a fluid were made.
I no longer know if it was Prandtl or Reynolds or another, but one of these great scientists had made an assembly with a propeller stirring a liquid contained in a heat-insulated enclosure.
The power supplied to the propeller being known, it measured the evolution of the temperature of the fluid to know the thermal capacity.
0 x
User avatar
Grelinette
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 2007
Registration: 27/08/08, 15:42
Location: Provence
x 272




by Grelinette » 09/12/08, 23:10

Well ... well ... I think I'm not ready to warm up with my wind turbine! sniff : Cry:

So a priori the best way is still to transform the kinetic energy of the wind into electricity and then into heat by the Joule effect? (in summary, connect a convector to the wind turbine)

What is discouraging is that we may look for new simple and effective systems ... but we always fall back on what already exists! :frown:

Are there still many brilliant researchers who will succeed in finding new innovative processes, or bringing up to date an old forgotten system?
Do you think, moreover, that it is the last real notable innovative discovery of recent years in the field of ecology?
0 x

 


  • Similar topics
    Replies
    views
    Last message

Go back to "Fossil energies: oil, gas, coal and nuclear electricity (fission and fusion)"

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : Bing [Bot] and 247 guests