Energy and climate: China's responsibility and India?

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Christophe
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Energy and climate: China's responsibility and India?




by Christophe » 30/04/11, 09:26

Topic divided from https://www.econologie.com/forums/nucleaire- ... 10726.html and particularly in response to: https://www.econologie.com/forums/post201268.html#201268

jlt22 wrote:However, everything that is produced is consumed by the consumers that we are. These are increasing exponentially, because the Chinese and the Indians have an increasing standard of living and want to consume like the Europeans and the Americans.


Sorry, it's going to fall on you (don't take it personally, please) but I can't stand to read and hear this "India and China excuse" (because it is one) ... which aims to take our responsibility away from us, the Westerners !

So I think this is what we have been told and told about for years, I feel more and more that we are being manipulated: for cultural, religious and educational reasons I am less and less convinced that all Chinese and all Indians dream of a car and of surround objects of consumption + or - futile ... Those who claim that all Indians want to consume like Westerners are Westerners who know absolutely nothing about Indian culture or religion. I don't know much either, but enough to know that cala has nothing to do with ours ...

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophie_indienne

There are obviously "naughty materialists" but in proportion much less than with us since with us it is 9/10 of the population (we also have an excuse: we were "trained" for)

Now, 1% of Indians or Chinese, ok that's already twice the size of France, I grant you!

I remind you all the same that the oil energy intensity of India is SUPERIOR to that of France: in other words, it takes more oil to create a $ of GDP in France than in India: https://www.econologie.com/forums/petrole-et ... t5022.html

I also have in mind this Indian canteen equipped with parabolic concentrators which allow to cook several tens of thousands of meals per day: we had talked about it here https://www.econologie.com/forums/produit-de ... 84-70.html

To my knowledge, it does not exist with us !!!

jlt22 wrote:The consumers that we are are ready to do anything to acquire all the innovations that manufacturers produce.

So we are the ones responsible for all this mess,
because we don't know how to say no.


+1 the manager in the end is indeed the buyer ... the marketing of the last 30 years has specialized in "creating the need" ...

jlt22 wrote:Before fighting to regulate the energies, we should drastically reduce our consumption, namely:
-to become vegetarians
-living in passive collective housing, finished the small individual house
-living near our work and using only collective public transport or cycling and walking
- consume only local products.
- do not waste (half of the agricultural production goes to the trash)
-not clutter with superfluous gadgets, see useless
-spend your vacation in your corner fishing or strolling in nature, if necessary only use the train to go a little further
This list is far from being exhaustive.


Funny, I am convinced that the vast majority of Hindus or Chinese currently practice this ...
Last edited by Christophe the 30 / 04 / 11, 09: 44, 1 edited once.
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by Janic » 30/04/11, 09:26

Before fighting to regulate the energies, we should drastically reduce our consumption, namely:
-to become vegetarians
The consumption of animal products is one of the biggest ecological waste in France (and worse in America). With the population growing steadily, it is certain that continuing to consume as many meat products will have a problem as important as that of renewable energies. We can not continue to run towards one more than one side, knowing that we have reduced our consumption by a few percent.

Edit important note by moderation, continuation of debate about food, vegetarianism / veganism / meat and ecology here : https://www.econologie.com/forums/ecologie-e ... 10750.html
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by Christophe » 30/04/11, 09:30

Last edited by Christophe the 30 / 04 / 11, 09: 45, 1 edited once.
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by Janic » 30/04/11, 09:43

this site is not bad either: www.viande.info/ afterwards we can no longer say: "I did not know!"
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Re: Energy and climate: responsibility of China and In




by Obamot » 30/04/11, 09:53

+ 1 for meat!
And jit22 did well not to say "vegan", because it is very complicated to manage, if you want to avoid food squares.
By cons, the biggest difficulty in food is cultrural (not to say cult). The problem for Westerners is the frequency ... 1x per week (or small quantities at each faith like in Asia) would be good enough. And the health of the population would gain. And then we should absolutely develop the consumption of vegetable proteins (tofu, etc.)

Christophe wrote:
jlt22 wrote:Before fighting to regulate the energies, we should drastically reduce our consumption, namely:
-to become vegetarians
-living in passive collective housing, finished the small individual house
-living near our work and using only collective public transport or cycling and walking
- consume only local products.
- do not waste (half of the agricultural production goes to the trash)
-not clutter with superfluous gadgets, see useless
-spend your vacation in your corner fishing or strolling in nature, if necessary only use the train to go a little further
This list is far from being exhaustive.


Funny, I am convinced that the vast majority of Hindus or Chinese currently practice this ...

... is that the idea of ​​the original message, no? As for the car in China, its possession is a symbol of social success (as in many places in Asia and elsewhere in the world ...) that's where the drama is!

Other...:
Christophe wrote:
jlt22 wrote:However, everything that is produced is consumed by the consumers that we are. These are increasing exponentially, because the Chinese and the Indians have an increasing standard of living and want to consume like the Europeans and the Americans.


Sorry, it's going to fall on you (don't take it personally, please) but I can't stand to read and hear this "India and China excuse" (because it is one) ... which aims to take our responsibility away from us, the Westerners !

So I think this is what we have been told and told about for years, I feel more and more that we are being manipulated: for cultural, religious and educational reasons I am less and less convinced that all Chinese and all Indians dream of a car and of surround objects of consumption + or - futile ... Those who claim that all Indians want to consume like Westerners are Westerners who know absolutely nothing about Indian culture or religion. I don't know much either, but enough to know that cala has nothing to do with ours ...

It is the first time that I have heard such a speech, and I totally agree!
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Re: Energy and climate: responsibility of China and In




by Christophe » 30/04/11, 10:17

Obamot wrote:It is the first time that I have heard such a speech, and I totally agree!


You forgot the: Image who is well : Cheesy:

Yes, we happen (often besides) to be good on econology and not just copy / paste the ideas of others ... (unlike many other sites ...)

Now the idea of ​​how consumption is linked to the culture / education / history of peoples is to be developed ... I gotta be totally but I don't believe ...

Here, society trains us well to consume ...

Not to be confused with "trains us to consume well" (totally false, quite the contrary) but that changes ... forum contributes to it ...
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Re: Energy and climate: responsibility of China and In




by Obamot » 30/04/11, 10:31

Christophe wrote:Now the idea of ​​how consumption is linked to the culture / education / history of peoples is to be developed ... I gotta be totally but I don't believe ...

Here, society trains us well to consume ...


And hop, right on target!

It is indeed our cultural consumption practices that are to be reviewed ... hehe,

Christophe wrote:Not to be confused with "trains us to consume well" (totally false, quite the contrary) but that changes ... forum contributes to it ...

Ok, thank you Imotep! Image 8)

(reason why there is little, I suggested to make the forum even more attractive in its presentation, beautiful ... It will come, everything in its time ^^)
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by sen-no-sen » 30/04/11, 11:44

Unfortunately the consumerist model is exported very well ... and accommodates customs and traditions.
In China, the emergence of the middle class is already reflected in a huge consumption of various products, and I do not think that culture is a bulwark against this.
In India it is somewhat different, moreover there are very marked caste systems, but there too the STM will certainly find a parade: Equality (in consumption), because its good that is the essential of the problem.

In terms of responsibility, I would rather look on the side of the USA (the ideology of the American way of life), even if by our behavior we are all accomplices.
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by Obamot » 30/04/11, 11:48

Absolutely, moreover for China, it is even vital to develop the internal market, to offset a possible drop in the external market ... !!!
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by jlt22 » 03/05/11, 15:25

Christopher said:
Sorry, it's going to fall on you (don't take it personally, please) but I can't stand to read and hear this "India and China excuse" (because it is one) ... which aims to take our responsibility away from us, the Westerners !

So I think this is what we have been told and repelled for years, I increasingly feel that we are being manipulated: for cultural, religious and educational reasons I am less less convinced that all the Chinese and all the Indians dream of a car and to surround themselves with objects of consumption + or - futile ... Those who claim that all the Indians want to consume like the Westerners are Westerners who n know absolutely nothing about Indian culture or religion. I don't know much about it either but enough to know that cala has nothing to do with ours ...

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophie_indienne


Western culture and religions have done well with materialism, and I do not think I am wrong when I say that it will be the same for China and India.

The movement is already underway:
https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... I78jRG.pdf

http://www.agefi.fr/articles/LInde-Chine-presentent-modeles-croissance-differents-1160559.html
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