But which passes the carbon?

Water injection in thermal engines and the famous "pantone engine". General informations. Press clippings and videos. Understanding and scientific explanations on the injection of water into engines: ideas for assemblies, studies, physico-chemical analyzes.
Christophe
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by Christophe » 15/12/03, 13:58

temsa wrote:Yop!

I introduce myself temsa, 22A, president of the robotics club of CPE Lyon (Coupe de France de robotique, aka "coupe e = m6" :D , I've been reading PMC's wanderings since around August 2000, I even wanted to build one ...

Wow so you discovered PMC before me   :P  (December 2000)

I nevertheless gave up the idea temporarily, because still living with my parents, they were afraid that the engine of the old mower would explode if I retrofitted it!

I know that, am a little in the same case ...

Christophe, you were even vaguely in contact with my friends Paul and Marc in 2001 who had done their TIPE (scientific presentation in preparation) on the PMC, they even had to go see you, and as it could not happen do they found themselves in shit at the presentation (our establishment really insisted on having contact with someone, and in a real way) even if their presentation would have been worth a good 14-15, it turns out that having lied having said that they had seen you and that one of the teachers of the jury was from Strasbourg, well their mark was divided by 2 (I feel partly responsible for it, since it is I who plugged them into the theme ...).

Okay then, I'm sorry but:

1) Many students solicit me (more than thirty students or pairs have contacted me) and I can not reasonably chew their work literally (all want it roughly). Me too I started from "nothing", obviously I understand that it is useless to reinvent the wheel but many questions from some students have their answers on the quanthomme site (among others). It is up to them to have a minimum of reflection and independent approach ... This is what they are judged in the case of a TIPE! In addition the TIPE are not really advanced studies (nothing to do with a PFE) so the teachers do not ask for concrete results ....

2) As for the meeting, I do not really see what it would have brought them, my test bench of the ETANT HS test. I explained all this to them ... and I think I have answered most of their relevant questions.

3) They must have been lying ?? And for what purpose? And how did the fact that a teacher was from Strasbourg make them unmasked? I don't really understand ... unless it was one of my 2 tutors ... which is possible but this is really no luck for them .... I am quite disappointed with their behavior there. ...

4) Helping is all very well, but with nothing in return, we don't get things done. I do not hear it that NOT one of these binomials made me a return of their defense, even less a copy of their study (which I asked in most cases) ... this for at least get an idea of ​​the reaction of their teachers ...


But hey it must be said that their follower teacher, sometimes nice / sometimes asshole, was unable to read the doc of quanthomme and your docs, and a little incredulous because having himself built a "water engine" at a certain time and being emerged disappointed from the experience.

Now that the presentations are done, I always asked myself a question: where does carbon go? : ph34r:

Indeed, according to your measurements, the rate of CO and CO² decreases with the pmc, even without adding water (I hope I say no bullshit, the last time I read them it must be there is 1 year)


Yes it is correct, a plausible explanation is the use (combustion) of the most volatile compounds in gasoline (composed of 130 constituents from 4 different HC families + additives) with a higher H / C ratio than gasoline burned in its entirety.
The use of water will further reduce this ratio BY DILUTION.
Anyway, it is clear that only a MASS study of exhaust gases could confirm a "disappearance" of carbon (however small it may be)


DE more apparently it does not come out in the form of a blackish polluting gas (see test of the handkerchief).

A gas engine has almost no particles either, this is not why the carbon disappears ... Except this is the case with PMC: combustion in the gas phase ...

In short, according to Lavoisier's principle, "Nothing is lost, nothing is created, everything is transformed" So where has our carbon friends gone?

I have a hypothesis, but I think it was moderately welcomed on the yahoo group (which I lost track of, is there any interesting things going on?):

Yes see the other post (so you subscribed to it) strange I don't remember your post anymore ...

Indeed, in 2000 I did a TIPE on carbon nanotubes, and I could even visit the labs of Montpellier researchers in the field: they created them in low pressure reactors (from 120 mbar to 700-800 helium mbar) in a plasma created by graphite electrodes and a current of around 20A (whose purpose was simply to provide energy for the reaction and the manufacture of the plasma) we simply added a few catalysts to have nanotubes and not just fullerenes.

Mmm very interesting, I had on the phone (in 2001) a research director from Sofia Antipolis working on the subject. To create H2 AND nanotube (high added value in the future of electronics)

Now if I understand what we know about what is happening in the pmc reactor: we have a very energetic plasma (up to 800 ° c of memory), a low pressure (created by the aspiration of the engine) and carbon in abundance (petrol) ... so it still seems close enough as conditions to allow ourselves to consider the creation of fullerenes, and therefore the miraculous disappearance of carbon!

Yes interesting. To confirm or deny after mass analysis of exhaust gases .... what I am unable to do with my means ... Strange that you speak of energetic plasma at 800 ° C ?? Yes for pressure and carbon (except in the case of water doping ...)


What bothers me more is what becomes of these fullerenes? They exit through the exhaust, stay in the engine?

Logically they should burn in the engine .... (even badly) therefore increased CO2 or visible particle (I am not very strong in combustion of the fulenes ...: rolleyes:) Otherwise pkoi would not they diffuse in the reactor materials ... and in this case the reactor would only be effective for a while ... Anyway, I abandoned the 100% pantone route to dedicate myself exclusively to water doping;)

In short I would like to know what you all think of that, and especially you Christophe;)

It's done: rolleyes:

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Christophe
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by Christophe » 17/12/03, 12:48

temsa wrote:yop yop :)

Thank you for your long answer to my long questions.

For TIPE, they don't hold it against you (don't worry!), You were traveling I think, and that's why you couldn't see them.

Well I hope they don't hold it against me;)

However we were not in a "normal" prep but in an "integrated" prep which while respecting the prep program is still quite different, and the TIPE has a great value in it, so we ask to make it better. Also, notable difference with the other prep, the physical meeting of an "expert" in the field is considered essential: rolleyes:.

Oula ben an expert is supposed to have a research laboratory ... which is not my case (for the moment ...)

The problem with PMC is that you are the only person I know who has numbers! That's why everyone needs you;)

Ben the most interesting figures are publicly available on the site http://www.quanthomme.com
the rest of my report is made up of hypotheses to confirm or deny (that of the fulenes is one more). Then there are also the farmers and Daniel Dubourg (his number is on the quanthomme website, Renault Express)


If you want I must be able to get you their presentation, but you will not have the text (it is a flash animation) ...: ph34r:

bah ct especially the reaction of the jury that I wish I had ...

For nanotubes, I wonder if we did not discuss with the same person because it was the purpose of their research the storage of H² in nanotubes (with the chemical techniques of cutting the ends of the nanotubes to put the H it's really nice and if these techniques succeed, it will be simple to run the cars directly on H² and therefore more carbon emissions ... :) )

It is possible, I do not remember his name anymore but it had an Italian sound and it seems to me that it was Peugeot which funded the research program ... but it is quite distant ...

If you want the exact figures (800 ° C for the electric arc I think, 1200 ° C for the laser and for the solar it must be 1400 of memory)

???? 800 ° C for the electric arc ???? a simple candle goes up to 3000-4000 ° C it seems to me ... 800 ° C does not give a white light ...


of what it takes to produce nanotubes with the electric arc technique (the first technique that made it possible to obtain them) voltage, intensity, gas pressure, I think I can find them without too much problem, even if my numbers are 4-5 years old. I must also be able to find information on the drilling of fullerenes and nanotubes with laser reactors, solar furnaces and the so-called chemical technique (the one I know less well).

blow it all up :) If it is a .doc or .pdf it will be plubilated on version 2 of econology :)

please
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