Gillier Pantone water doping if it was just a bridle?

[Christophe]

I'm going to be the lawyer of our detractors but I wonder (without believing it given the different testimonies but scientific honesty wants us to study all the tracks) if water doping was not just an engine bridle? Warning it does not mean that it is a disadvantage on the contrary, here's what I think if it was.

Thus, by restraining the engine, its maximum power is reduced and you run "virtually" at a greater load.

However, the best specific consumption of the motors is reached close to the maximum load. Do you want to know where I'm coming from?

So we do a kind of downsizing but without changing the whole engine and therefore at a very reduced cost.

Here the debate is launched

[Other]

Hello

We will talk about tried things, many times.
I tried to have the maximum of depression, while that simply to make a wild bridle, I made several venturi
I can say that with a venturi too small my consumption has increased that is to say too much clamping, no smoke, I do not think of a lack of air, the turbo starts to turn faster we hear it blink.
Another higher exhaust temperature observation as well as that of the LDR (Poor performance index)
although I have explored the restriction to have more heat on the engine at low speed.
In our assembly there is interest to clamp the least possible and to seek the most depression in the reactor

the clamping is felt at a certain power (like a dirty air filter)
the clamping must be relative to a speed of use (in my case at 120km h I hardly notice it
The neck of the venturi I put it at the same diameter as the inlet of the turbo near the turbine, the ducts to bring air can not serve as a reference
Too much vacuum in the reactor forces too much air to pass into the reactor, at the target speed 100kmh it cools the reactor too much, so there is a balance to be sought so that the reactor is hot .. that is why sometimes the reactor works better at 110 km / h than at 90 km / h than the (consumption at 100 km / h) is almost identical to these two speeds whereas it should be higher at 110 km / h

Only from the engine point of view
Too much restriction on the entry of air on a diesel ocassione an additional effort on the aspiration (like petrol engines) but on the other hand relieves the compression less air to compress
something else, by reducing the air admitted into the diesel, ie getting closer to the diesel air ratio close to full load by getting closer to the explosion engine (no excess air exaggerated as at low power)
we know that doping with water has its good performance under heavily loaded engine conditions, (no excess air)
At 100 km / h with a certain restriction, the portion of diesel fuel injected can meet the same air diesel fuel ratio as at full power.
it is known that the contribution of doping to water is effective under combustion conditions where the air begins to become poorly distributed or deficient (smoke) from the engine.
If we push further this reasoning of clamping a heating of the intake air either by hot steam or hot air makes a reduction in the swallowed air, without the inconvenience of a difficult pumping on the contrary, but makes the compression cycle painful the temperature rises faster as well as the final pressure at the end of compression and also more loss by walls in the cylinder head.
water vapor could have a role during this cycle
I don't understand why doping with water reduces the engine brake of a diesel.

Now to say that we make a restriction to decrease the power of the engine for the purpose of the limited is absurd.
In my case 3 liter engine I do not use full power and all my tests are between 100 and 110kmh on the highway, so the restriction does not change anything in my measurements
this vehicle drives without restriction at 180kmh with restriction that descends around 170kmh ..

What I test is the reactor so I always use the vehicle in the same way at the same speed, otherwise I will get lost in my tests

For small multi-cylinder engines we too often forget that the displacement believes in the cube and that the surface of the cylinder head believes in the square
therefore a large displacement single cylinder engine will have less heat exchange with the cylinder head and the cylinder walls
An old generation auto diesel runs on a mixed cycle.
When it works with a weak injection it approaches the diesel cycle and when it works with a strong injection it approaches the explosion cycle.


Andre

[Flytox]

Bonjour à tous

...
the clamping must be relative to a speed of use (in my case at 120km h I hardly notice it
...
something else, by reducing the air admitted into the diesel, ie getting closer to the diesel air ratio close to full load by getting closer to the explosion engine (no excess air exaggerated as at low power)
we know that doping with water has its good performance under heavily loaded engine conditions, (no excess air)
At 100 km / h with a certain restriction, the portion of diesel fuel injected can meet the same air diesel fuel ratio as at full power.

For those who have a working Gillier Pantome, there would be a test to be made to advance on this subject. It would be to put a butterfly like on a petrol engine in the intake pipe and find an opening law according to the load / speed.

If indeed the performance of the assembly is dependent on the air / diesel ratio we should at least widen the operating range of the Gillier Pantome.

A+

[Cuicui]

i water doping was not just an engine bridle [/ b]?

This hypothesis does not seem to correspond to Toftof's description of his tractor in the past. He spoke of a dramatic increase in the power of his engine.

[elephant]

I also do not think that the word bridle is appropriate: many successful experiences show an improved power / fuel consumption ratio.
The same is true for the proportion of unburnt and CO

[Other]

Hello

We don't have the choice to clamp in a diesel if we want it to suck in the reactor, or else we have to pressurize the reactor
The least clamping is in Camel mounting, just the diameter of the conduit in the cylinder head holes, applicable for atmospheric engines.
With a turbo a simple pipe in a whistle makes a slight clamping and a weak aspiration in the reactor only the air filter resistance.
With a venturi you have more depression in the reactor
If you use the carburetor water supply principle like ZAC and as I used, you still need more vacuum to operate the small carburetor.

we also make a certain clamping on the exhaust to have heat on the reactor at low power.


We know that according to theory and logic, we must encourage the flow.
In our assemblies there is not much logical thing to improve the flow of gases, either entering or leaving the engine, to operate the reactor we must be penalized.
It's always compromises.
I wonder if we managed to operate the reactor without these penalties, what performance would we have?

Andre

[bolt]

Hello

Thus, by restraining the engine, its maximum power is reduced and you run "virtually" at a greater load.

the principle of an EGR valve

if water doping was not just an engine bridle?

This hypothesis does not seem to correspond to Toftof's description of his tractor in the past. He spoke of a dramatic increase in the power of his engine.

the "virtual" clamping is not con for what is lower than the full "real" load
but as Cuicui says, there is often a certain overkill available, recently read here precisely:
https://www.econologie.com/forums/post63166.html#63166

I know that André will say that: when there is overpower, the specific consumption is less favorable
but it may be that the people in question notice this overpower but use it very little in reality
and are then, most often in the operating range with the reduction of specific consumption

bolt

[Other]

Hello

I know that André will say that: when there is overpower, the specific consumption is less favorable
but it may be that the people in question notice this overpower but use it very little in reality
and are then, most often in the operating range with the reduction of specific consumption

When the water dosage is good, there is a slight increase in power that an attentive driver who knows his engine well feels it,
so there is slightly increased economy and power.

When I drive and my water tank is empty I notice it, by the occasions, if I accelerate, while driving always stable at 110kmh you put a little more gas and you do not realize anything. .

When there is no more water in the system, the clamping is exactly the same as with water, I have not managed to have a good performance without water, I know that some people can walk without water on When home (I did not find the solution, even in winter with a methanole 50% water mixture it was not as good as water only, yet it is a combustible liquid?

Andre