SNCF: water doping diesel locomotives

[christophe 18]

Hello,
I am a driving agent at SNCF.
When I see the pollution that all these diesel engines rejects, it appeals to me.
This is the reason why I submitted to the CIM (hardware engineering center) a file including the GILLER PANTON assembly.
This was refused because several points are not possible for them, unfavorable or even harmful for the smooth running of the locomotives. I would like to collect "official" information so as to prove to them that their hypotheses are to be reviewed. If tangible information are transmitted to them and support, this could bring a reassessment of the file initially submitted.
With a possible study and application if the expected results are up to their expectations. Because it is necessary to advance the results and put together a solid file so that credits are released in order to finance this study and see more.
If a company like SNCF uses this arrangement, this can be done a little.
1) the locomotives are in axle load limit. But if less consumption possibility of reducing the capacity of the tanks and thus gained weight on this side. Average weight of a locomotive from 60 to 114 tonnes or 10 to 19 tonnes at the axle. Average consumption per kilometer 1L to 3,7L.
2) Engine life with this assembly?
3) It is impossible for them to consume less by using water despite the dossier submitted or their misunderstanding.
4) The biggest problem (for me) maintaining the power at least equal because according to the engineer that I had on the phone there is never enough. Indeed the maximum power is requested at takeoff oar, that is to say for setting in motion all the waggons. A double oar can go up to 3600tonnes hence this need and maximum power maintenance.
5) The only positive point is the possible gain in fuel even of 5 to 10% on a national consumption of the order of 96 m000 of diesel fuel per year.


Thank you to all

[pb2488]

Hello,
What are the "not possible, unfavorable and harmful" points which motivated the refusal of the CIM?
Can you detail STP?
Cdlt

[christophe 18]

hello pb2448
the negative points are 1 2 3 4 countered and demonstrated
cdlt

[pb2488]

If I understand correctly, the CIM engineer was afraid that the system might affect engine power?
Other than that, I don't see what those arguments were.
Cdlt

[christophe 18]

yes the biggest point and not the least is the loss of power that can generate the system. Better we must prove that this loss is unfounded by the eventual experimentation at the test bench with and without mounting with certified readings.

[Flytox]

Hello Christophe 18

The subject is interesting, but in order to be able to help you, we would need more explanations / information. Could you give us the technical description of the engine (ideally performance + photos etc ...), how it is used Hey, all the Gillier Pantomists don't drive trains every day .that we know better what we are talking about.
A+

[christophe 18]

good evening flytox
basic principle of a diesel locomotive:
very large displacement diesel engine v12 v16 supercharged by two turbochargers with air / air exchanger called intercooler intercooler.
This engine is coupled to a dynamo and for the less old an alternator.
At takeoff the engine speed is increased which increases the electric production which feeds in turn large electric motors generally 1500volt continuous.
Here to keep it simple.

[chatelot16]

I'm skeptical about the pantone

to prove the proper functioning do not look for the problem with devices that you do not pose

the best way to prove the performance of an engine is a generator: it is possible to save all the parameters

records everything during normal operation: fuel consumed and electricity produced

record everything after transformation: we will see if there is profit

all the pentone tests that I see show a reduction in consumption, but do not measure the power supplied: therefore does not prove a better performance but simply a reduction in consumption by forcing to drive more slowly

with a generator it is easy to put an EDF meter to record the kwh produced

[pb2488]

I'm skeptical about the pantone

all the pentone tests that I see show a reduction in consumption, but do not measure the power supplied: therefore does not prove a better performance but simply a reduction in consumption by forcing to drive more slowly

It is clear: "reduce consumption by forcing you to drive more slowly".
No need for pantone for that .... you just need a less powerful engine.
Cdlt

[Flytox]

to prove the proper functioning do not look for the problem with devices that you do not pose

Indeed, if you do not have the donkey available, the development is not done on plan ...

the best way to prove the performance of an engine is a generator: it is possible to save all the parameters

If you try on a significantly different engine (here 12 or 16 cylinder of very large displacement) and which turns very slowly every time, the extrapolations are much more difficult ...

all the pentone tests that I see show a reduction in consumption, but do not measure the power supplied: therefore does not prove a better performance but simply a reduction in consumption by forcing to drive more slowly

For my part, I try to keep my cruising speed "permanently" between 90 and 95 km / h when I compare consumption and on a substantially equivalent journey. The power absorbed to drive at this speed is more or less the same. And if I'm saving on Diesel (around 11%) it's not because I drive slower with my Gillier Pantone, but because the efficiency is a little better.