Steam doping mounting Diesel Generator

Edits and changes to engines, experiences, findings and ideas.
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lio74
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Steam doping mounting Diesel Generator




by lio74 » 23/09/07, 19:54

Hello !

after many readings on the forum and on quanthomme, I finally joined the clan of the experimenters :D

here is the report of the editing done
https://www.econologie.com/fichiers/partager/feed_back_GE1.pdf

To recess the context, I belong to an association: Sustainable Development Assistance (SDA). We aim to promote, disseminate and enable the implementation of alternative energy for a more autonomous lifestyle and more respectful of Nature ! Big words ... concretely is to raise awareness about the sustainable management of resources: organic food, eco construction and renewable energy.

Regarding steam doping, we want to allow a maximum of people to benefit ... and as in France there are already a lot of associations around the pantone we focus on the electro groups. The goal is to provide access to energy in southern countries (Africa, India among others .......) by equipping humanitarian associations that go to the depths of the bush or directly the local population (school , artisans and peasants ...).

Note, the electro group is a good mobile solution for the supply of electricity; but also as a source of support for renewable energy systems. this allows you to cash in conso tips and avoid over-sizing systems (solar for example) in short enough chatter ...

At the moment, with the return to the university is a little standby on the test and fab ... but everything is reassembled, it just lacks the water tank and its connections!

turning it, I noticed that he already smokes less black when he is fully loaded!
Is it the modif in the muffler :?: or because the engine sucks in hot air coming from the reactor :?:


a small summary of the subjects where I intervened for our generator:
https://www.econologie.com/forums/methodes-d-injection-d-eau-dans-le-pantone-moteur-t3882.html
https://www.econologie.com/forums/tests-de-consomation-fiables-debitmetre-ou-pesee-t3832.html
https://www.econologie.com/forums/panton-et-marche-a-l-huile-t3702.html

good reading and do not hesitate to make suggestions!
@+
Last edited by lio74 the 17 / 10 / 07, 09: 40, 2 edited once.
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"To do something is expensive, to do nothing will cost much more." Koffie Annan
next species endangered: Man ... and it will be good for him !!!
MAN IS A VERY DANGEROUS POLLUTION NATURAL!
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by camel1 » 24/09/07, 23:37

Hi Lio!

Glad to see that you have not been unemployed, despite the time and energy lost because of your first "rinsed" group ... : Cry:

I looked at your pdf, it looks promising, keenly the tests.

For your level problem on the GV, and given its vertical layout, I really do not see where it blocks ... a priori, this configuration is the most practical to make it work easily.

Have you seen my update about the balancing of depression out of the Gv (see on the wiki if it's not already done, here at the bottom of the page, I explain what to do ...)

I can not wait for your results! :D

Good return for you, and see you soon!

Michel

PS. It's also moving for our with friends, we are opening our local Friday, it will heat! : Cheesy:
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by lio74 » 25/09/07, 11:16

hi Camel : Cheesy:

for the update yes I had seen on your site ... but I will see more closely the wiki I have not been there yet :|

the thing is that we did tests by hand: water bottle, transparent pipe and tank ... it works once in three! :?
and there are big fingers that broke the needle : Lol: we bought another one ... which works no better.

we go to the pressure leveling holes and we must also think to put it slightly below the desired level because of the slight depression!

I can do more! we bombarded at the end of August and there re standby !!! :frown:

@+
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"To do something is expensive, to do nothing will cost much more." Koffie Annan

next species endangered: Man ... and it will be good for him !!!

MAN IS A VERY DANGEROUS POLLUTION NATURAL!
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by lio74 » 21/10/07, 11:20

camel1 wrote:..............
Come on, get excited, Lio, we can't wait to "see" this damn electro band spinning!

And by the way, to load it, think about the Emmaüs solution, they have lots of old electrical convectors, you choose them around the 1500 / 2000W, you shunt the thermostat, and you put them in // (plan the 10² for the drivers , so you do not have losses online), and then you can choose the load you put on the group, as you please :D 8)

And since you charge in pure resistive, you have no problem with the cos phi & co, it is ideal for measuring your useful power!

Go, good luck friend, and do not take the lead with your aquarium flowmeter : Lol:
...............


Hello everyone !

Good for the tests it happens slowly but surely .... the group made its first teuf teuf... :D :D
We set up an electrical panel with shunt resistance to measure the "true" power ... I didn't have the number in mind for the cable section, so we did with 1mm² for P <1500W and 1,5mm² for P = 2000W ... which corresponds to the standard (ie 10A and 16A) we will calculate the line losses .. and with the shunt we will check ... in addition all the connections will be taken into account!

As I say ... my pti flowmeter rikiki will serve us for the water ... :P

The sequel to the next episode ...

@+ : Cheesy:
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"To do something is expensive, to do nothing will cost much more." Koffie Annan

next species endangered: Man ... and it will be good for him !!!

MAN IS A VERY DANGEROUS POLLUTION NATURAL!
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by Other » 21/10/07, 16:25

Hello

For 15 amperes it's No 14 AWG
In the measurements it is necessary that you measure amperage and voltage directly at the exit of the generator (if the resistances of load are far, of way the losses in the line are counted the measurements are in VA one can neglect the cos with resistances hot ..

It is necessary that in your measurements, you are not at the maximum of the load of the generator, with heavy load one does not account the internal losses of the generatrice (heating of the winding)

The measures that interest us is by comparison for a panton

Two methods I use
I put a reasonable load for the engine I always keep the same load for the tests, following the modifications, I measure the consumption with small amount chronometré

The other longer method but minimizes the errors
once the engine is warm to constant load I make him consume a quantity of fuel for approximately 30 minutes
after modifcation I test to see how long it runs with always the same amount ..

you have to be careful about short measurements, cold, cold resistance, cold generator (less loss)

For the panton always make it warm up well before taking any action.
The small varaitions must be counterverrified before drawing conclusions, many heuredans garage
(Foresee an exit outside exhaust in a barrel of 200l that removes a little the noise seen the number of hours that it will turn that devinet tiring for the neighborhood)

Andre
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by camel1 » 22/10/07, 01:01

Hi Lio and André! :D

Andre wrote:In the measurements it is necessary that you measure amperage and voltage directly at the exit of the generator (if the resistances of load are far, of way the losses in the line are counted the measurements are in VA one can neglect the cos with resistances hot ..


It is necessary that in your measurements, you are not at the maximum of the load of the generator, with heavy load one does not account the internal losses of the generatrice (heating of the winding)


I had thought about it (to record the losses in heat in the generator) by a system exchanger carcass / water + circulation towards a heat-insulated tank of known volume of which one measures the T °.

We measure the time required for the engine at full load to go from a T ° of say 20 ° C to 80 ° C ...
By applying the formula Q = mc deltaT °, we obtain the Qty of accumulated heat which, compared to the time passed, makes it possible to deduce the equivalent power reduced in Watts

Once known, this data will be used to correct (weight) the electrical power measurement.
The only problem is the realization, can be using watercooling kits for computer processors ... diverting the principle to transfer the heat from the generator to the tank ...

In my opinion, the advantage of being able to cover the whole range of engine speed during experimentation is because I think that there must be operating phases or a certain number of parameters coincide, and that give an interesting result.
By methodically identifying these optimals, I would like to establish coherent links by crossing these data to identify key points.

But this strategy is not necessarily contradictory with yours, which I find very clever ...
The obvious advantage of yours is its immediacy!

The measures that interest us is by comparison for a panton


+1

For the rest, concerning the fixed load methods that you describe, they have an increased reliability, it is certain ... that said, the measurement of the instantaneous consumption thanks to a NAVMAN for example would make it possible to "feel" the influence of a setting much faster than half an hour! By fixing a time test piece of the order of XNUMX min, we already have a statistical accumulation of samples sufficient to give a "trend", and therefore be able to assess whether we are going in the right direction or not ... an investment that I will soon make ...

you have to be careful about short measurements, cold, cold resistance, cold generator (less loss)

For the panton always make it warm up well before taking any action.


Yes, it is obvious, to make sure, by an appropriate measure of the T °, ​​that one is in the same initial conditions, with hot, before starting the acquisitions ...
I am happy to see here a beginning of debate around a test bench, something so dear to my heart ... :D

A generator is ultimately a potential test bench, which just needs to be adapted to our measurement needs.

The only "problem" is that a GE has a centrifugal regulation of its speed, so as to provide a current at 50Hz with us, or 60 Hz with you ...

If I know the direct relationship between speed and frequency, I am wondering about the evolution of the output of the generator in the case where one varies the revolutions / mn.

Does anyone have any info on it?

I am interested because I am currently working on our future test bench, and I am thinking about the concrete problem of direct coupling of any car engine with a measuring generator (different shaft diameters). ..

Our concerns are coming together ... :D



Lio wrote:Good for the tests it happens slowly but surely .... the group made its first teuf teuf ... :D:D
...... .......
As I said ... my pti flowmeter rikiki will serve us for water ... Razz


Glad to see that towards your home, it's progressing too!

And your water meter, where do you intend to put it?

@+

Michel
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by gilgamesh » 05/12/07, 14:56

Hello Lio,

I sometimes wonder if you have had encouraging results with your editing :?:
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by Other » 05/12/07, 16:17

Hello
gilgamesh wrote:Hello Lio,

I sometimes wonder if you have had encouraging results with your editing :?:


It depends what encouraging means to you?
10% 32%?
For me 10% it's discouraging
What is above 30% is encouraging
Andre
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by gilgamesh » 05/12/07, 16:34

Bain - that's what you say: you need at least a saving of 25 or 30% and good value at the depolution level to make it worth it. I always read that it was easier to set up a pantone gillier system on a fixed-speed engine and that works in charge and I expected results even better with the project on the generator than on a successful veicle. For that I wonder why we have not heard anything on this subject yet
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by lio74 » 11/12/07, 19:58

Andre wrote:Hello
gilgamesh wrote:Hello Lio,

I sometimes wonder if you have had encouraging results with your editing :?:


It depends what encouraging means to you?
10% 32%?
For me 10% it's discouraging
What is above 30% is encouraging
Andre


Hi everybody,

yes, radio silence because a lot of things to manage (study, asso other project ... research internship ...)

so at the beginning of november I had a little time, and unfortunately I wanted to go too fast, and I made a false manipulation ... fuel run out during T ° measurements on different points => hasty restart with load 100% => I cut the load immediately, it stalled and it does not want to restart !!! : Evil:

we looked at everything: filter => pump => injector ..
but diesel does not want to happen ... there is maybe an electric safety that is activated ???

otherwise with great care on 2 unreliable measurements ... 15%
knowing that it is 15% compared to the system off, not compared to original system ...

too much precipitation : Cry: :? : Cry:
there I have to work on my measurement protocol ... that I finish the "electrical panel" with the temperature displays, voltages at the terminals of the shunt resistors, ... and a teacher told me that I had to have a cylinder pressure sensor ...
besides I do not know if it's so simple to have a display (see at conrad) for the K probes and Shuntes ...

so deal to follow, I try to find a gas analyzer (CO, CO2, HC, O2, NOx)

if you have comments about a reliable and scientific protocol I am open to everything! : Cheesy:

@ ++
0 x
"To do something is expensive, to do nothing will cost much more." Koffie Annan

next species endangered: Man ... and it will be good for him !!!

MAN IS A VERY DANGEROUS POLLUTION NATURAL!

 


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