Pantone principle on LPG engine

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Nanard
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Registration: 04/05/06, 12:34

Pantone principle on LPG engine




by Nanard » 05/05/06, 12:16

I browsed the site for a while but I did not find an answer to the question I ask myself.

I would like to know if it is possible to equip an LPG engine with a Pantone system? If yes, are the gains identical to conventional motors? Does anyone have experience in the field?


Nanar, new follower of your forum
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PITMIX
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by PITMIX » 05/05/06, 14:37

Hi nanard
I have no experience in LPG but in my opinion the principle remains the same. If it is possible on petrol engine it is on LPG engine.
I know that some prefer to wait until I get results with my assembly before embarking on the modification of their vehicle.
I am not a reference in terms of technicality in my editing but I intend to get there.
My last montage, if you know the site, was very classic.
A bubbler, a reactor in the exhaust very close to the manifold, and a suction of gas coming from the reactor directly into the intake manifold.
I had simply controlled a solenoid valve at the outlet of the bubbler so that water doping is only done when the accelerator is in the open position and the bubbler is at least at 50 ° C.
As for the savings made, it is not yet that (- 0,5L / 100km in the best of cases), neither power gain nor noise reduction.
The only thing observed is a sharp drop in the CO level which corresponds to a higher oxygen level. In fact, the arrangement of the connection of the reactor to the manifold causes an excess of air at the intake.
It might have been necessary that I reduce the size of the jets of my carburetor in order to deplete the mixture but for that it would also have been necessary that I found help from a mechanic.
If like me you are not super sharp in mechanics first find yourself a mecano friend who can help you.
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I Citro
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by I Citro » 20/06/06, 00:34

I've been fighting for months on the issue: pantone + gpl ...

At the beginning I thought I would find here or elsewhere the conceptual elements to size for my vehicle.

Today my thinking is:
- I will do, like the friends, a "laboratory" montage to test various solutions.
- I will place several reactors in the catalytic converter
- I do not yet know how to regulate the power supply to the reactors (I had considered motorcycle exhaust valves as on the yamaha "exup").
- I am convinced that it is necessary "to mix a hydrocarbon with the vapors of the bubbler or water carburetor before making swallow the whole by the reactor.

From my point of view, LPG is of great interest because the "dosing" part of my LPG installations doses LPG in the gas phase.
I ask myself the question of considering a double passage in the reactor:
- 1 / I send water vaporized with exhaust gases (bubbler ...) then makes them enter a twin pressure regulator of the LPG pressure regulator
- 2 / I mix (by combining the outputs of the 2 pressure reducer) these gases with the LPG before passing them through a second reactor.
- 3 / I connect the output of the 2nd reactor to the input of the LPG doser which supplies the passive LPG injectors.
- 4 / I take advantage of the auto-calibration function of the LPG calculator.

What bothers me is the vapor which risks condensing the pantone gases (doping with water from the first reactor) and making them inoperative as well as the risk of gas explosion during the passage through the 2nd reactor because then find mixed fuel and oxidizer which at the slightest spark can make "BOOM". : Shock:
I await your comments. :?
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Other
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by Other » 20/06/06, 05:54

Hello

I am convinced that it is necessary "to mix a hydrocarbon with the vapors of the bubbler or water carburetor before making swallow the whole by the reactor.


What are you basing yourself on to be convinced?


-
2 / I mix (by combining the outputs of the 2 pressure reducer) these gases with the LPG before passing them through a second reactor


Why put 2 reactors in series, there is one over quant man
who does a similar assembly on a vehicle, As we have no feedback on other assemblies and results.
When it usually works very well, guys don't hesitate to say it.

For a reactor to work, it has to come relatively cold at the inlet and come out (hot) at the outlet.

In your place I would start with a single simple water doping reactor and then I would experiment with this same LPG reactor with a little water.
As far as I know, I haven't heard of anyone trying this experience, let us know


When building a reactor for fuel, its design is different than for water. When using a 100% panton and passing water the% water must be low, although I am talking about liquid fuel with LPG I cannot say if it is the same thing.

Andre
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jean63
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by jean63 » 20/06/06, 14:05

citro said:
I've been fighting for months on the issue: pantone + gpl ...

In your place, I will not embark on such an adventure, and this for several reasons:

1 - The vehicle went to the mines to become type EG instead of ES; currently the technical control does not check the installation GPL, but it can come. So far no problem for the moment.

2 - On the other hand at the slightest problem on the LPG installation, you are obliged to go through an approved LPG mechanic and then there, I do not make you say the guele that it will pull when seeing the 2nd gas plant.

3 - In the event of an explosion of the vehicle, I do not even prefer to think of the consequences if they find the slightest pantone mounting element during the appraisal of the vehicle !!!!!!

If I tell you this is that I drive LPG with an R25 (basic assembly not sophisticated like yours) and some time ago I had unexplained problems of irregular idling and over-consumption. For the Renault mechanic he found nothing with his suitcase of control on the electronic ignition, for the LPG pro ditto nothing abnormal at his level.

In the end, I solved the problem with a forum specialists in R25 (Club) and it came from the diaphragm (fishing) of the idle regulator which was sending petrol wrongly into the intake manifold !! once i had changed this regulator, everything worked again normally.

For a typical garage owner, as soon as there is a problem, he challenges the LPG if he does not find the cause and even before looking for it, believe my experience.

Now if you want to get started, it's that I suppose you have thought about all the disadvantages.
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by Other » 20/06/06, 16:10

Hello citro, Jean 63
I had not seen the legal aspect which is rather apply more rigorously in the hexagon,
It is already difficult to regulate on a panton, petrol engine and nothing says that there will be a valid result at the end of this experience, with LPG we know nothing .. unless he wants to serve as cobail .
If you want to try a panton it is on a diesel engine that it is the simplest to realize and that the output is the best.

So I think you should follow John's wise counsel.

Andre
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I Citro
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by I Citro » 20/06/06, 18:10

To jean63 and André
I will surely start with water doping.

But I would like to go further,
reacting fuel and water in a reactor (steam reforming as described by Christophe) seems judicious to me to obtain optimum results.

Regarding my modifications on the LPG, everything will be designed to be reversible.

Finally, I do not plan to store pantone gases (deemed unstable) in order to limit the risk of explosion.

Thank you for your opinions and advice

Do you have solutions to regulate the water flow in the reactor (injector?)
as well as the exhaust gas flow ???
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