Renault Premium water injection 260

Edits and changes to engines, experiences, findings and ideas.
jojo3013
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Registration: 27/10/13, 15:20

Renault Premium water injection 260




by jojo3013 » 27/10/13, 18:09

Hello, I am coming to you for advice on the pantonization of a Renault Premium 260hp 19 of PTAC.

Feature:
-Refrigerated truck converted into housing.
-Dimension: 10.70 meters long 2.60 wide and 3.90 high.
- Current weight: ~ 12 Tons.
-Power: 260 horsepower
-Cylinder: 10 liters
-Low pressure direct injection (320 bars)
-Turbocharger and Intercooler.
- engine weight 785 kg : Cheesy: I know we don't care ...
-6 cylinders in line.

- Consumption 22 to 25 liters per 100 km.
-Roll in oil and like it ..

The first major detail is where to inject pantone gas, in view of the size of the intercooler, injecting the gas before the turbo would mean having steam which condenses in the intercooler (it is the size of the radiator, it laughs not in PL). So I was thinking of injecting the gas just before the intake pipe, this means that the whole system will have to be under pressure: the reactor, the instant steam generator, the drip tray, the water tank, and the intake 'air.

So first question, does anyone have an idea of ​​the pressure in the intake on these engines? Because it will be a problem with the evaporation of the water (principle of the pressure cooker, the more pressure there is, the more the boiling point of the water increases).

Here I start there, another question, I find that the forum is no longer too active on the pants, is there another forum who is more active on the subject? And there are still panton installers, I'm talking about custom crafting and adjusting as it should, not all ready kits that have a more than doubtful result. I had the opportunity to test a pantonne on one of my vehicle and I saw a clear difference (engine torque, economy ~ 20% and quieter operation of the engine), unfortunately a cracked copper tubing near the reactor and not spanking solder I could not repair.

Having peeled a lot of site for years I am still asking for information.

I know how to do arc welding, and master electronics and have good knowledge in mechanics.

I plan to make my all stainless steel reactor in a steel exhaust tube, locate vertically 10cm in diameter by 30cm long, I quickly give dimensions to the tear off, 3 reactor, composed of an inner tube diameter 20-18mm , and a bar of 15mm * 125mm long. With the welding point technique on the bars and forced entry into the tubes.

The instant steam generator will be installed horizontally, and also in stainless steel, no precise size for the moment, but the location is that I have room and are supply system (drip by drip) fact that I can oversize it.

A hose (silicone and copper pipe) of 20 millimeters by 1 meter will reread the gene to the reactor and insulated in temperature by an insulating sleeve. ditto between reactor and intake but with a length of 1.70 meters

So much for the main lines, I await your advice and encouragement, Thank you :)
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Flytox
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Re: Renault Premium 260 water injection




by Flytox » 27/10/13, 23:23

Hello jojo3013 Welcome to the club.

jojo3013 wrote:The first major detail is where to inject pantone gas, in view of the size of the intercooler, injecting the gas before the turbo would mean having steam which condenses in the intercooler (it is the size of the radiator, it laughs not in PL). So I was thinking of injecting the gas just before the intake pipe, this means that the whole system will have to be under pressure: the reactor, the instant steam generator, the drip tray, the water tank, and the intake 'air.


Both solutions are possible:
- Injecting the steam before the turbo is much simpler. There are no condensation problems to be expected in the intercooler. Between the large air flow, the air which is hotter in an intercooler than in a conventional intake without turbo, the water in the form of fine droplets and the vapor will be carried away without problem as and when. It "suffices" that your steam production system spits out only steam or very fine droplets (with + or - air depending on the assembly).

- Indeed, you can inject after the turbo or the intercooler etc, but you have to manage ...variations pressure which induce possible reversals of the direction of flow of gases and or liquids .... It is much more difficult to keep it simple ... and I am not convinced that it gives better results.

So first question, does anyone have an idea of ​​the pressure in the intake on these engines? Because it will be a problem with the evaporation of the water (principle of the pressure cooker, the more pressure there is, the more the boiling point of the water increases).

In the technical review, they necessarily talk about it in terms of the "wastegate" settings. Ultimately, you don't give a damn about the value of this pressure, in any case you have to look for the parameters that improve the operation of your Gillier Pantone, it is much more empirical than calculated (the number of parameters is too large so that it can be calculated for an amateur).

Here I start there, another question, I find that the forum is no longer too active on the pants, is there another forum who is more active on the subject?


The Pantonists Anonymous meet on Face de Bouc.: Mrgreen:
Tssssssssssssss! The reference is Econology! : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen:


And there are still panton installers, I'm talking about custom crafting and adjusting as it should, not all ready kits that have a more than doubtful result. I had the opportunity to test a pantonne on one of my vehicle and I saw a clear difference (engine torque, economy ~ 20% and quieter operation of the engine), unfortunately a cracked copper tubing near the reactor and not spanking solder I could not repair.


If you could document it would be great. :P


I plan to make my all stainless steel reactor in a steel exhaust tube, locate vertically 10cm in diameter by 30cm long, I quickly give dimensions to the tear off, 3 reactor, composed of an inner tube diameter 20-18mm , and a bar of 15mm * 125mm long. With the welding point technique on the bars and forced entry into the tubes.


With 3 reactors that a lot of work ....

The instant steam generator will be installed at horizontally, and also in stainless steel, no precise dimension at the moment, but the location means that I have room and the feeding system (drip by drip) means that I can oversize it.


When you have a part of liquid water in an Instant Steam Generator horizontally, I am not convinced that the operation is very "regular" when you turn / brake / accelerate. The fleet suddenly moves on parts not wet / overheated or cold etc ... Operation can only be erratic. With the GVI upright, water movements are much more limited and operation more stable / predictable reproducible.

A hose (silicone and copper pipe) of 20 millimeters by 1 meter will reread the gene to the reactor and insulated in temperature by an insulating sleeve. ditto between reactor and intake but with a length of 1.70 meter


Can you make it shorter?
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Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.
[Eugène Ionesco]
http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
jojo3013
I discovered econologic
I discovered econologic
posts: 3
Registration: 27/10/13, 15:20




by jojo3013 » 28/10/13, 23:28

Ok, sorry for the response time, I was no longer capturing where I was.

Thank you flytox for your answers and your reactivity, I could read, but not able to answer grrrrr, already I am happy to know that econology is always active on the pantone, it is a pleasure and was a time (the beard pushes me ) it was really crowded here.

So when it comes to injecting before the turbo, it's possible, but I'm not telling you how far it will go until admission, or rather if yours, by the way dimensions of the beast, so the engine is more than 1.20 meters long, so it's about the distance between the exhaust outlet of the turbo and the intake, after to connect the 2 must pass above the engine, where the 1.70 meter visibly all of that. Going through the intercooler you can add 2 meters. And it is really efficient, from what it condenses inside I am a bit advanced, but between cooling and pressure, it is highly possible.

For the Wastegate, I did not know thank you, unfortunately on the technical doc it does not provide too much information on this subject, because my engine block can be delivered according to the models between 260 ch and 340 ch by modifying the PI, Turbo adjustment, regulates the system. advance etc. So all of that is a bit fuzzy, and it's done on purpose. I have an info it's 1 bar at 1000 rpm, it's not much, you can't hear the turbo at 1000 rpm, the normal regime being at 1500 ...

In terms of documenting my first try, it dates installs it on my 210D merco, and if I could have seen the guy again, he probably would have done it again, but I couldn't, too much distance, the test was too short, but I saw the difference.


For the three reactors, yes it's a job, I have an interest in training before welding the parts, but I visualize the thing in my head, with my knowledge it is feasible, and they are not huge in welding. By cons cutting level have shown me how to do. (It takes me to ask, to make an elbow and I explain, no need to bend, but must be welded).


For the engineer, I received the message, that's also why I wrote my intentions, actually, now that you say it, I remember that many had problems with the gene , I can put it vertically or almost, but it's in a bend in the exhaust, suddenly it will weaken the exhaust, I would have liked to avoid it (I did a bit of off track lol).


In terms of making the hose shorter, I already answered a bit before, but by changing the space it will be next to the reactor so 40 cm, and for the rest, photos will enlighten you better than long speech. And I would do real measurement by the way.

So tomorrow, photos. And one now for the presented.

The traveling castle is fine with him, he is always working, I live in it and I often change the garden.

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jojo3013
I discovered econologic
I discovered econologic
posts: 3
Registration: 27/10/13, 15:20




by jojo3013 » 29/10/13, 01:23

There I am standing on the front wheel, the radiator and the intercooler are on the right, but I am not high enough to take everything, so have the tracks not.

Image

So at the top of the tof, we have the intake manifold, the six four-leaf clovers are there to bring me luck, just below the exhaust manifold and below the turbo, and to the left of the turbo, in the black hole, I think the pantone is stuck, it's a flexible 44cm long metal hose with a diameter of 10, I need to find silicone hose of maximum diameter and insert a tube for the pantone, already that it is not won, and at the bottom of the tof the quirky thing, it is the air intake of the air filter which is even further under the truck. The 2 large tubes on the right go towards the intercooler.

For the scale you have the wheel make of it, this is what there is on the tractor sowing trailer, the rear wheels make the same diameter, the first tof is misleading.

The bar in front of the front wheel is my gear lever, don't let the size impress you, it's just an engine. I take all the advice, I would sort it out as I go along, I don't have much room for error anyway.

So I have to gather as much info as possible before dismantling, because I am mobile and must remain so.
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by Flytox » 29/10/13, 22:52

... just below the exhaust manifold and below the turbo, and to the left of the turbo, in the black hole, I think the pantone is stuck, it's a flexible exhaust metal hose 44cm long by 10 of diameter, I have to find some silicone hose of maximum diameter and inserted a tube for the pantone, already that is not won ...


Not fully understood how you want to use your silicone hose : Cry:

For condensation in the intercooler:

Image

As an order of magnitude, the air temperature enters more than 100 ° and emerges at 60 °. Enough to spray a lot of water even under + 1 bar. Given the displacement the air flow must be fairly violent throughout the intake, the fleet is unlikely to accumulate.
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Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.

[Eugène Ionesco]

http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132

 


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