hello to all my topic of tpe is: ethanol an alternative to petroleum? I take care of the electronic part and on this subject I seek information on the flexfuel kit specific to the use of ethanol by a vehicle I would like to know how it works especially at the level of the calculator I made a quick research on the forum but I did not find anything specific.
thanks in advance to +
TPE flex fuel kit
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Hi and welcome,
I never had a technical manual for an E85 Kit in my hands but I suppose (strongly) that it acts on (at least) the following 2 parameters:
- Wealth (100% safe)
- Ignition advance (less safe)
The wealth is managed by the lambda probe (residual O2 analysis) and I explained what could cause a problem at the bottom of this page:
https://www.econologie.com/forums/kit-de-con ... 86-40.html
Nikolian already seems to be using E85, he can probably tell you more ... but the best in your case would be to contact a reseller of Kits ...
I never had a technical manual for an E85 Kit in my hands but I suppose (strongly) that it acts on (at least) the following 2 parameters:
- Wealth (100% safe)
- Ignition advance (less safe)
The wealth is managed by the lambda probe (residual O2 analysis) and I explained what could cause a problem at the bottom of this page:
https://www.econologie.com/forums/kit-de-con ... 86-40.html
Nikolian already seems to be using E85, he can probably tell you more ... but the best in your case would be to contact a reseller of Kits ...
0 x
Do a image search or an text search - Netiquette of forum
Hello,
Christophe asked me about this subject, but I'm afraid I won't be able to provide much information.
I do not use a Kit yet, I am currently at 50% E85 without Kit.
Regarding the Kits, there are three essential brands
Manual Flextek Kits (http://www.flextek.com)
FullFlex Auto Kits (http://www.fullflexint.com)
ABCesso Auto Kits (http://www.abcesso.com)
Best to take the information directly from the source
For less direct but French sources
Pascal de Echomeca is passionate before being a seller and it is undoubtedly significant.
Jch, once you have your info, please pass it on this topic. We are all curious to know, among other things, how a Kit can know what percentage of ethanol is in the tank.
Christophe asked me about this subject, but I'm afraid I won't be able to provide much information.
I do not use a Kit yet, I am currently at 50% E85 without Kit.
Regarding the Kits, there are three essential brands
Manual Flextek Kits (http://www.flextek.com)
FullFlex Auto Kits (http://www.fullflexint.com)
ABCesso Auto Kits (http://www.abcesso.com)
Best to take the information directly from the source
For less direct but French sources
code: Select all
http://www.echomeca.com (Fullflex)
http://flex-e85.net (Flextek)
http://www.borel.fr (Fullflex)
Pascal de Echomeca is passionate before being a seller and it is undoubtedly significant.
Jch, once you have your info, please pass it on this topic. We are all curious to know, among other things, how a Kit can know what percentage of ethanol is in the tank.
0 x
Good result following the request of another member,
I will give you my hypothesis:
On a Flex Fuel car there is a Lambda sensor in the tank, which gives the percentage of oxygen contained in the fuel.
Since SP95 does not contain oxygen and ethanol contains oxygen, it is possible to know the percentage of ethanol and to adapt the injection to this percentage.
In the case of a Flex Fuel case added there is no lambda probe in the tank. Then I think that the box analyzes the data received by the lambda probe of the exhaust, it compares the percentage of oxygen received with the percentage of normal oxygen and deduces the percentage of ethanol.
It is thus possible to analyze the percentage of ethanol at startup to correct the behavior of the injection all along the path.
Again, this is a hypothesis, it remains to be verified.
I will give you my hypothesis:
On a Flex Fuel car there is a Lambda sensor in the tank, which gives the percentage of oxygen contained in the fuel.
Since SP95 does not contain oxygen and ethanol contains oxygen, it is possible to know the percentage of ethanol and to adapt the injection to this percentage.
In the case of a Flex Fuel case added there is no lambda probe in the tank. Then I think that the box analyzes the data received by the lambda probe of the exhaust, it compares the percentage of oxygen received with the percentage of normal oxygen and deduces the percentage of ethanol.
It is thus possible to analyze the percentage of ethanol at startup to correct the behavior of the injection all along the path.
Again, this is a hypothesis, it remains to be verified.
0 x
Good evening everyone I come back as expected with the response from a company selling flex fuel kits and here is the answer they gave me:
Hi,
Allow me, before I answer you technically, to react
on the very subject of your TPE: Ethanol produced today in
France, for E85 in particular, is mainly produced by a process
petrochemical. So I don't see how it could be a
any alternative ... The only ethanol that would be REAL
biofuel, not a commercial label, should be produced under our
latitudes from mircantus, the elephant grass, a rhyzome which
gives in one year a rod 2 to 3m high, halfway between the reed and
bamboo, cultivable without any maintenance on fallows, which has the
power to regenerate soils. At the end of the year, a passage to
the forage harvester produces pellets, which are then degraded with the
good amylase adapted then distilled with solar energy, and you
thus giving almost pure alcohol, in any case sufficient for a
local road use. Here, from extraction to consumption, we have
dealing with a short cycle, compatible on a human scale with the
definition of renewable energy. And not the infamous and abject
beverage named E85 that the petrochemical industries are trying
clumsily, with our politocards, to make us swallow for better
make us dependent ... But there is another debate, even a
another fight ...
On a technical level (and I'm only talking about the FlexFuel system that
I install, the others, I don't know), the calculator is installed on
the electrical connectors connecting the original computer to
injectors. The original computer is supposed to be optimized by the
manufacturer so that the injectors give just the right amount of
S95 to the engine. To do this, the original computer adapts
permanently this optimal amount. How? 'Or' What ? Well, he's just
informed in real time about the temperature and the air flow admitted, on
speed and depressing the accelerator pedal, on the load
actual engine performance, on the quality of combustion (lambda probe), and
number of other things. From there, the original computer modifies
slightly its original mapping taking into account all these
parameters (knock detectors, etc. And everything goes for the best
in the best of gasoline engines.
But if this gasoline is of "bad" quality, the calculator
of origin will try to "correct" even going so far as to put
degraded mode. This is what happens if you grind more or less
ethanol in your S95 ...
The additional computer compares the original cartography
manufacturer (supposed to walk on S95) and analyzes the response gap of the
original computer when it is in the presence of an S95
"degraded", and in this case E85 among others. He therefore deduces the%
of ethanol in view of the response difference from the original computer. Therefore,
as he knows the ideal stoichiometric ratio for ethanol and,
hence, all the intermediate proportions from 0 to 100%, it corrects
then the orders given to the injectors.
Morality, the fullflex kit does not "cram" the engine so that it can
turn to E85, it calculates right what it takes for the% ethanol
deducted. We then observe consumption at worst equal to S95, at
better down 10%.
The downside is that this kind of kit needs to be programmed
for each type of injection, which implies an impressive amount
versions, and therefore a fairly high production price.
Here, I hope to have been clear, if not do not hesitate to ask others
Questions.
Hi,
Allow me, before I answer you technically, to react
on the very subject of your TPE: Ethanol produced today in
France, for E85 in particular, is mainly produced by a process
petrochemical. So I don't see how it could be a
any alternative ... The only ethanol that would be REAL
biofuel, not a commercial label, should be produced under our
latitudes from mircantus, the elephant grass, a rhyzome which
gives in one year a rod 2 to 3m high, halfway between the reed and
bamboo, cultivable without any maintenance on fallows, which has the
power to regenerate soils. At the end of the year, a passage to
the forage harvester produces pellets, which are then degraded with the
good amylase adapted then distilled with solar energy, and you
thus giving almost pure alcohol, in any case sufficient for a
local road use. Here, from extraction to consumption, we have
dealing with a short cycle, compatible on a human scale with the
definition of renewable energy. And not the infamous and abject
beverage named E85 that the petrochemical industries are trying
clumsily, with our politocards, to make us swallow for better
make us dependent ... But there is another debate, even a
another fight ...
On a technical level (and I'm only talking about the FlexFuel system that
I install, the others, I don't know), the calculator is installed on
the electrical connectors connecting the original computer to
injectors. The original computer is supposed to be optimized by the
manufacturer so that the injectors give just the right amount of
S95 to the engine. To do this, the original computer adapts
permanently this optimal amount. How? 'Or' What ? Well, he's just
informed in real time about the temperature and the air flow admitted, on
speed and depressing the accelerator pedal, on the load
actual engine performance, on the quality of combustion (lambda probe), and
number of other things. From there, the original computer modifies
slightly its original mapping taking into account all these
parameters (knock detectors, etc. And everything goes for the best
in the best of gasoline engines.
But if this gasoline is of "bad" quality, the calculator
of origin will try to "correct" even going so far as to put
degraded mode. This is what happens if you grind more or less
ethanol in your S95 ...
The additional computer compares the original cartography
manufacturer (supposed to walk on S95) and analyzes the response gap of the
original computer when it is in the presence of an S95
"degraded", and in this case E85 among others. He therefore deduces the%
of ethanol in view of the response difference from the original computer. Therefore,
as he knows the ideal stoichiometric ratio for ethanol and,
hence, all the intermediate proportions from 0 to 100%, it corrects
then the orders given to the injectors.
Morality, the fullflex kit does not "cram" the engine so that it can
turn to E85, it calculates right what it takes for the% ethanol
deducted. We then observe consumption at worst equal to S95, at
better down 10%.
The downside is that this kind of kit needs to be programmed
for each type of injection, which implies an impressive amount
versions, and therefore a fairly high production price.
Here, I hope to have been clear, if not do not hesitate to ask others
Questions.
0 x
This passionate but reasoned speech would not be that of Pascal de Echomeca !?
FYI, on some cars an engine light indicates the transition to degraded mode, not on mine apparently
I saw the transition to degraded mode shortly after 50% of E85, the car then gave the engine fuel, and is no longer good for consumption or for pollution.
(I remind you that for the moment I don't use a Kit, but I'm saving)
FYI, on some cars an engine light indicates the transition to degraded mode, not on mine apparently
I saw the transition to degraded mode shortly after 50% of E85, the car then gave the engine fuel, and is no longer good for consumption or for pollution.
(I remind you that for the moment I don't use a Kit, but I'm saving)
0 x
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