Scams (?) Trap and grants, real experiences

[tigrou_838]

Hello,

To follow up on the subject of Christophe on fiscal control following subsidies.

I open this little subject to discuss the arnarchs of renewable energy subsidies.

Scams from manufacturers and installers (who overcharge) and successive governments (who give with one hand to take back with the other).

To begin my little experience of two professional quotes for a simple installation of solar hot water.

a) 4500 euros and 5000 euros, for two sensors total 4m2, a balloon of 200 liters 3 meters back and forth of pipes, and the small devices to rotate all this.

b) I made myself and that cost me 1000 euros all included.

I easily noticed that the terms solar + subsidy (or tax credit if you prefer) double or even see all the prices.

I hope I am not alone in having this kind of experience.

I didn't get ripped off, but how many people got ripped off.

Talk about your experiences here, so maybe other people don't have this.

[Bmag]

I did it myself and it cost me 1000 euros all included.

Hello Tigger
At that price, did you make the panel and the balloon?
Did you describe your installation somewhere?
Okay, I'm hs, but I have to do it to avoid the subsidy scam; prevention is better than cure.
Bmag

[tigrou_838]

Hello,

look here: https://www.econologie.com/une-maison-so ... -3789.html

OR in the solar file part, renovation of a house also on the apper.


No other subsidy scam experience?


tigrou

[Christophe]

I renamed and corrected (formatted) your tigger initiator message.

My experience is limited to seeing a quote of which I have retained a figure 2700 € HT the 500L double heat exchanger solar tank. FYI, I paid for a used one (for ECS wood) of 300L in 5 mm with 2 large magnesium electrodes at 500 €.
This is the one we see here: https://www.econologie.com/forums/photos-et- ... t4368.html

In import material, Turkish for example, we find 800 € for 300L but not subsidized (like it's amazing ...)

I don't think we should really talk about scams but overcharging and traps ...

Besides, what do the consumer defense associations think? Apparemnt not much, it is content to make the appology of the aid cf this 1997 issue (a bit old now but ...)



There is also a 2001 file but the Enr do not seem not be all the rage at UFC only 4 files in 11 years ...

It is true that in UFC there is consumption ...

[tigrou_838]

thank you christophe, it is true that when i write it is a bit out of order, the keyboard does not follow the brain which goes too fast when people talk to me about subsidies as a waste of energy.

When you talk about overcharging, I prefer to say scam to subsidies.

all the people with whom I discuss this tell me that it is too expensive, even with subsidies. when you think that an installation of 5000 euros has for total subsidy of the ademe and region only 2500 euros then when seeking and doing oneself to avoid the thieves (plumbers) special solar, we arrive only at a cost of 1000 euros, to have free hot water and very fast amortization, there is a problem somewhere.


who says subsidies, says price increase (double see triple) with equal system and power. not to mention the problems you invoke in your recovery topic.

when the consumer defense associations, not much, they just follow the movement without much news.

maybe this message will react a few one !!!!!! and I hope.


tigrou

[Christophe]

the keyboard does not follow the brain which goes too fast when I am told of subsidies as a waste of energy.

Me it's the opposite!

When you talk about overcharging, I prefer to say scam to subsidies.

Yes but in this case the who scams who?

a) The State scams the consumer by making him think he's getting a good deal?
b) The seller scams the state by putting the grant in his pocket?
c) The industrialist or wholesaler scams the reseller by also inflating its prices
d) Finally, the customer, unconsciously, scams his fellow citizens by taking advantage of a bonus for overcharged equipment? (do not forget that all grants are subject to budgetary quotas according to the first served rule)

all the people with whom I discuss this tell me that it is too expensive, even with subsidies. when you think that an installation of 5000 euros has for total subsidy of the ademe and region only 2500 euros then when seeking and doing oneself to avoid the thieves (plumbers) special solar, we arrive only at a cost of 1000 euros, to have free hot water and very fast amortization, there is a problem somewhere.

I think we have to distinguish 2 things:
a) the price
b) profitability

Indeed b) is very limited with certain overpriced solar systems ...but what upsets me a little is that nobody (or almost) thinks of b) when he buys a new car for example ...

maybe this message will react a few one !!!!!! and I hope.

Well you already have a reaction

[tigrou_838]

the problem is there,

yes
the b yes
the c yes just by putting solar on it and the price up.
the yes also

the problem with price and profitability is that it goes together.

and ecology in all of this is just a story of finance.

in any case, it is always the citizen who will pay.

exactly at the level of the car, but there is a fundamental problem, it will be necessary to change everything at the level of the car and no longer run on petroleum, but hey, petroleum, finance and scam of the population, it does not go together.

there is no one else who would have an installation without going through subsidies ????

at least one answer, it's already not bad, even if I already knew it from christophe.

tigrou

[Christophe]

You just made me think to the paradox of renewable energies:

a) 10 years ago it was expensive because demand was low therefore reduced production capacity.

b) Today it is expensive because demand is high (supposedly) and big subsidies (when it's not the fault of China and India: lies)

Concrete example: evolution of the price of PV cells

[tigrou_838]

This is precisely the paradox of renewable energies, it is that it is never at the right time.

I just thought of something else, in style:

you have money (you are rich),

you invest in renewable energies (installation of 50000 euros),

you get reimbursed half or more by bonuses,

and hopla in reality. it reminds me of tax loopholes.

result, you get paid for your installation by everyone, so the less fortunate too, it's Robin Hood's upside down.

tigrou

[Christophe]

result, you get paid for your installation by everyone, so the less fortunate too, it's Robin Hood's upside down.

Toutafé, see d) above, in fact the subsidies continue, indirectly, to make people believe that ecology is something for the rich. This is probably why econology is not yet of interest to the "system" ...

It does not prevent better it is a rich person who installs 100 m² of PV panels or who buys a Porsche Cayenne for the same price