Advice on the choice of heating

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fuliculi
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Advice on the choice of heating




by fuliculi » 20/12/06, 21:24

Hello everybody

I will soon build and I would like to take advantage of geothermal energy but my budget is not very high. I hesitate between two solutions, I do not know which will be the most comfortable and economical to use (excluding installation).

- Gas heating on the ground floor and upstairs
- Geothermal heating ground / water on the ground floor and electric convectors on the floor.

I wish in all cases to have underfloor heating on the ground floor. The floor will be heated as the ground floor, there is our room, our bathroom and the office.

I also thought of installing a Canadian well coupled with a vmc double flow but it may be difficult with the external circuit geothermal.

The heating of the water will be gas if one is heated with gas. If we opt for geothermal, it is possible that the water is heated with electricity if geothermal is too expensive point.

Do you have some tips for me to decide?
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bham
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by bham » 21/12/06, 16:35

You can reason from an environmental point of view (1), from a financial point of view (2) and from a political point of view (3).

1- The gas will emit more CO2, even with a high efficiency boiler (see pulsating boiler). It must also be transported by gas pipelines or by LNG carriers.
Electricity, of nuclear origin in France, emits little CO2, considering all the sector but there is quite a lot of energy losses from production to distribution (% age?). I think electricity also has to be cheaper to distribute because less burial, more flexibility.

2-You must consider the initial investment and the likely evolution of the cost of energy. Regarding the second point, you know that the gas took 30% inflation in a short time and it will not fall any more. The price of electricity is currently blocked, EDF is committed to it, but for only years. Will it then be indexed to the price of gas, among others, without doubt.
Side efficiency, theoretical advantage for the heat pump with a COP 2 3 while your boiler rarely exceed 1. But longevity side advantage for the gas boiler, it seems to me.

3-Gas makes our country dependent on foreign countries, so we are at their mercy in case of hardships.
Nuclear energy gives us energy independence, the price can fluctuate, but only according to energy indices or national political will and not because of international, military or diplomatic conflicts.

Here are some ideas, personal, I would look for geothermal WITH Canadian well. The convectors plan I do not like but waiting for other solutions perhaps (put radiant panels anyway).

Good reflection !!!
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by Christophe » 21/12/06, 16:41

The most interesting solution in my opinion is: solar and wood ...

Sorry about the Off topic but heat pumps are still nuclear ... and some modern convectors (radiant or rather radiant panels) do as well (consumption divided by 2 to 3) in terms of energy savings for the same comfort thermal in comparison to the convector "of shit" at 20 € each ...

In addition a CAP MUST be limited to the south of France ... unless you work at EdF ... : Cheesy:
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by fuliculi » 21/12/06, 17:01

Thank you for this enlightenment bham!

I had not thought about the political side and on the long term (even average) it is as important as the financial side.

For radiant panels, it will be decided at the end according to the budget.

I did some research on the Canadian well and its operation with a vmc and underfloor heating. Here is a small summary:

The Canadian well blows heated air and is effective with convectors or radiators with hot water, but few with underfloor heating. I think the Canadian well would be good for the floor in my case.

In summer, however, it seems to be more efficient (independent of the type of heating of course).

Finance side for the well, I found some figures:
- 1 trench of 25m on 1.5m of depth during the construction of the house: 150 €
- the polyethylene pipe 25m x Ø20cm: 24 € at Casto (see their website)

To do well, I think 2m pull 25 pipes for 130m² of living space, so double charges.

By asking the vmc installer to pull me a pipe to the look, it should reduce costs.

After all, there is all the equipment for connecting the well to the pipe of the vmc double flow, a possible fan if the one of the vmc is not enough, a siphon. Not to mention the construction of the look knowing that I would have no basement (but most likely a crawl space)

I came across this file which I found very interesting:
http://www.fiabitat.com/puits-canadien.php
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by bham » 21/12/06, 18:00

fuliculi wrote:Thank you for this enlightenment bham!
The Canadian well blows heated air and is effective with convectors or radiators with hot water, but few with underfloor heating. I think the Canadian well would be good for the floor in my case.


Note: the Canadian well allows the ventilation of a dwelling by introducing fresh air less cold than that coming directly from the outside by the bottom of the doors, the door frames in general, because it warms in contact with the ground.
There is indeed always a natural ventilation, even if it is well caulked, it means that if it is -10 ° c outside, fresh air at -10 ° c will enter the house, air cool that the heating will have to warm up under penalty of cooling the house, in the long run. With the Canadian well, this aeration is channeled, so we only have a fresh air intake. The advantage is that if it is -10 ° C outside, the fresh air will enter the house at -5 ° c, or 0 ° c and not at -10 ° c, so we have a volume of fresh air less cold to warm. The top is to couple this with a VMC double flow: it means that if fresh air comes in, air inside, stale and hot must come out (otherwise the house swells : Lol: ). So the principle is to take the calories from the stale air that is rejected to give them to fresh air from the Canadian well. So by keeping my example, you will introduce by the Canadian well an air at -5 ° / 0 ° c that will heat you up in this VMC double flow and will enter the house at + 10 ° c / + 15 ° c. All good, especially for your floor. For more details, more techniques and figures, see Bruno Herzog's website:
http://www.batirbio.org/html/ it is a model of its kind in this area.
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by bham » 21/12/06, 18:02

But the site that you found me not bad either!
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by Woodcutter » 21/12/06, 18:10

bham wrote:[...] With the Canadian well, this aeration is channeled, so we only have a fresh air intake. The advantage is that if it is -10 ° C outside, the fresh air will enter the house at -5 ° c, or 0 ° c and not at -10 ° c, [...]
Ideally, with a good exchange surface, the incoming air must stabilize at the earth's temperature, ie 11 to 13 ° C whatever the external T °.
It's always less to exchange with the hot air coming out ... : Wink:
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by fuliculi » 21/12/06, 18:17

Yes, I have already seen this site, thank you.

The well is effective if it is well designed and especially when it is very cold or very hot but little in between seasons.

My concern is mainly for the floor. I'm afraid I have to spend a lot of energy on the parts, which is why I'm interested in the Canadian well.

I do not know if geothermal will allow me to have a well, it will depend on the remaining available surface in the garden ...

I contacted a pro who says that the floor heating of the ground floor heats between 30% and 40% upstairs. I remain skeptical on this point but if this is the case, then the electric upstairs would be less greedy (especially with a well).
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fuliculi
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by fuliculi » 21/12/06, 18:23

The soil temperature varies generally (it seems) between 5 ° C (winter) and 15 ° C (summer), there is necessarily a supply / saving of calories but the question is also how long the well will be profitable.

If it is well designed and done on its own, less than a decade should be enough.
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by zac » 21/12/06, 18:24

fuliculi wrote:I contacted a pro who says that the floor heating of the ground floor heats between 30% and 40% upstairs. I remain skeptical on this point but if this is the case, then the electric upstairs would be less greedy (especially with a well).


Hello

it depends on what you have between 2 levels but with a simple floor is rather 60 to 70 / 100, warm air rises :P
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