Hello
I allow myself to post on your super forum to present you my project:
it is the rehabilitation of large premises at low altitude in the northeastern region.
I want to produce heating and electricity from shallow geothermal sources of about 100 / 200 in a region with average temperature of 5 degrees.
the drilling can be numerous (10,20 or more) I work in the construction and that is me nidifficile and expensive
my average thermal gradient will be about 10 / 15 degrees
would there be a solution to produce electricity from this gradient?
I have already considered the sterling, the orc, a micro-turbine as in the cyle of power plants etm and the effect seebeck, which to date seems to be the only real solution because of the existence of the modules peltiers to consistent prices
if you know of other solutions?
I also plan to increase the temperature of my sources, on the one hand to produce heating, and also to improve my thermoelectic yield, which increases very strongly with thermal gradients
I heard about thermo-compression, if anyone knows in detail or if you see other solutions?
(I remember that I have many sources with low thermal gradient)
my last solution will be to drill at 1000m or more, but this is much more complicated
thank you to all of you
Low temperature geothermal thermoelectricity isolated site
Without wanting to be flabbergasted, 15 degrees of gap seem to me insufficient to consider a sufficient production of energy.
Only deep 100m pumping will likely require more energy than the system will be able to produce.
By way of comparison, the exploitation of the thermal energy of the seas operates from a temperature delta of approximately 20 °.
Only deep 100m pumping will likely require more energy than the system will be able to produce.
By way of comparison, the exploitation of the thermal energy of the seas operates from a temperature delta of approximately 20 °.
0 x
You're right ... in principle.
Taking into account the exchanger (s), the "useful" temperature difference may reach 10 to 12 °, ie a maximum efficiency of 3 to 4%.
To obtain a power of 1kW, it will therefore be necessary for your coolant to carry thermal 30kW.
This will require a large flow of heat transfer fluid and exchangers (very) consistent (with probably the pressure drops that go with ...).
Taking into account the exchanger (s), the "useful" temperature difference may reach 10 to 12 °, ie a maximum efficiency of 3 to 4%.
To obtain a power of 1kW, it will therefore be necessary for your coolant to carry thermal 30kW.
This will require a large flow of heat transfer fluid and exchangers (very) consistent (with probably the pressure drops that go with ...).
0 x
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Obamot
- Econologue expert
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Hello Gastonn,
Welcome dear "colleague"!
1) Shallow "geothermal deposits" run out quickly (some claim to be able to do it, but I ask to see ... we must then isolate all that while the earth is free around ... I do not see the 'interest)
2) The good borehole seems to be -360m deep, because there we would already have a constant "usable" temperature (and even very comfortable by "passivating" a house). The principle is to store heat during the hot season, to prevent the deposit from running out and then being able to draw what is needed throughout the cold season, to start the cycle again afterwards.
3) It is necessary to know that at -2m one with 8 ° C, with ~ [-] 150m according to nature of the subsoil) one has a temperature of 12,5 ° C only. Below this we gain 1 ° C of temperature around 30m, so that:
- to 360 is available - thanks to a drilling - a constant temperature of about 20 ° C.
- at -500m is available - thanks to a drilling - a temperature of 23 ° C anyway, permanently, whether stored or not.
The EPFZ gives the realistic figure of 17 ° C to -300m (but insufficient depth if one wants to do without a CAP, amha)
However, if we have a sunny day, then we can keep the heat produced in winter in the diurnal cycle, to raise the temperature of the house in the night cycle, without sending it deep (and by storing it in a large boiler to the ad hoc dimensions) so you have to see at what latitude / altitude the house is (if you are above the pea puree at an altitude of 1200m for example, this can be a big advantage). In the mountains in winter, there are those who are satisfied with the direct supply and a large boiler, because they have the sunshine "for ..." (they therefore saved the drilling)
4) If you already have a passive house, it is no longer necessary today, there would be other cheaper solutions (like a tank inside, but you need to have room for ...)
5) I'm surprised no one reacted to this, but geothermal energy at low or medium depth is not made to produce electricity, but to use the heat that can be recovered to heat "live". Only deep drilling can allow it, but here it becomes an "industrial" solution which is no longer within the reach of the management of a single-family house (heavy and long depreciation). For the current there are the PV panels, which undoubtedly have a better performance, but it would be necessary to be able to store it, there is the solution to sell it, to buy it back in the night cycle ....
Today, if we want an "economical" solution, we choose other solutions. Drilling (as long as we are part of it and that it does not cost bombon) is a luxury, for example to have a swimming pool heated all year round (although we can also adopt the strategy that goes well and even use the water itself from the swimming pool as a thermal buffer indoors, always on a sunny day ...). But if you can do that sort of thing, then drilling offers an extraordinary and super comfortable solution! And profitable compared to the explosion in the price of a barrel of crude (if we can afford it.)
Sincerely,
Some links to old "lively" discussions on this topic:
https://www.econologie.com/forums/post242319.html#242319
https://www.econologie.com/forums/stockage-e ... 10470.html
Welcome dear "colleague"!
1) Shallow "geothermal deposits" run out quickly (some claim to be able to do it, but I ask to see ... we must then isolate all that while the earth is free around ... I do not see the 'interest)
2) The good borehole seems to be -360m deep, because there we would already have a constant "usable" temperature (and even very comfortable by "passivating" a house). The principle is to store heat during the hot season, to prevent the deposit from running out and then being able to draw what is needed throughout the cold season, to start the cycle again afterwards.
3) It is necessary to know that at -2m one with 8 ° C, with ~ [-] 150m according to nature of the subsoil) one has a temperature of 12,5 ° C only. Below this we gain 1 ° C of temperature around 30m, so that:
- to 360 is available - thanks to a drilling - a constant temperature of about 20 ° C.
- at -500m is available - thanks to a drilling - a temperature of 23 ° C anyway, permanently, whether stored or not.
The EPFZ gives the realistic figure of 17 ° C to -300m (but insufficient depth if one wants to do without a CAP, amha)
However, if we have a sunny day, then we can keep the heat produced in winter in the diurnal cycle, to raise the temperature of the house in the night cycle, without sending it deep (and by storing it in a large boiler to the ad hoc dimensions) so you have to see at what latitude / altitude the house is (if you are above the pea puree at an altitude of 1200m for example, this can be a big advantage). In the mountains in winter, there are those who are satisfied with the direct supply and a large boiler, because they have the sunshine "for ..." (they therefore saved the drilling)
4) If you already have a passive house, it is no longer necessary today, there would be other cheaper solutions (like a tank inside, but you need to have room for ...)
5) I'm surprised no one reacted to this, but geothermal energy at low or medium depth is not made to produce electricity, but to use the heat that can be recovered to heat "live". Only deep drilling can allow it, but here it becomes an "industrial" solution which is no longer within the reach of the management of a single-family house (heavy and long depreciation). For the current there are the PV panels, which undoubtedly have a better performance, but it would be necessary to be able to store it, there is the solution to sell it, to buy it back in the night cycle ....
Today, if we want an "economical" solution, we choose other solutions. Drilling (as long as we are part of it and that it does not cost bombon) is a luxury, for example to have a swimming pool heated all year round (although we can also adopt the strategy that goes well and even use the water itself from the swimming pool as a thermal buffer indoors, always on a sunny day ...). But if you can do that sort of thing, then drilling offers an extraordinary and super comfortable solution! And profitable compared to the explosion in the price of a barrel of crude (if we can afford it.)
Sincerely,
Some links to old "lively" discussions on this topic:
https://www.econologie.com/forums/post242319.html#242319
https://www.econologie.com/forums/stockage-e ... 10470.html
0 x
thank you very much for your answer
I will read carefully the two posts that you linked me
I had no awareness of the notion of "depletion of geothermal deposits" and I thought that from the moment we drilled, put a tight loop and closed we took advantage "ad-vitam" of the temperature of the basement ...
the only thing he seemed to me having to calculate the thermal power was a drill 20 cm 200 18 m degrees (to deduce the usable electric power), taking of course into account the thermal conductivity of the basement to keep my drilling at temperature
I actually considered a direct use of the temperature of the subsoil to greater depth (without thinking about storage possibilities), but as I need electricity at night or in low sunlight, I wanted to study first a solution of production of thermo-electricity by inter alia by raising the temperature of these sources with low gradient to improve my production yield and to take advantage of it to obtain my heating temperature
my thinking was that drill 15x100 or 15x200m is infinitely easier than drilling 1x1500 or 2000 m ... I can even consider to drill dozens of wells at this depth
just had to find a way to raise the temperature of these sources (thermo-compression?)
Congratulations for your 70 000 + million km (I'm only 50 000 +) and thank you very much for all this information
I keep searching
I will read carefully the two posts that you linked me
I had no awareness of the notion of "depletion of geothermal deposits" and I thought that from the moment we drilled, put a tight loop and closed we took advantage "ad-vitam" of the temperature of the basement ...
the only thing he seemed to me having to calculate the thermal power was a drill 20 cm 200 18 m degrees (to deduce the usable electric power), taking of course into account the thermal conductivity of the basement to keep my drilling at temperature
I actually considered a direct use of the temperature of the subsoil to greater depth (without thinking about storage possibilities), but as I need electricity at night or in low sunlight, I wanted to study first a solution of production of thermo-electricity by inter alia by raising the temperature of these sources with low gradient to improve my production yield and to take advantage of it to obtain my heating temperature
my thinking was that drill 15x100 or 15x200m is infinitely easier than drilling 1x1500 or 2000 m ... I can even consider to drill dozens of wells at this depth
just had to find a way to raise the temperature of these sources (thermo-compression?)
Congratulations for your 70 000 + million km (I'm only 50 000 +) and thank you very much for all this information
I keep searching
0 x
From a purely ecological point of view, I would be for a solution closer to a Stirling. The materials of the Peltier modules are real m *** e. After that, this kind of Seebeck module-based system has a drinking performance with a delta of 50 ° C, so your system looks pretty good to me. But also, a special care must be applied to the exchanger. Without the good design you go from a positive to a negative return very quickly.
Finally, it will probably be a reminder for you but with this kind of system as with heat pumps, you have to be careful with the type of soil. If you have swelling clays, the situation can be problematic.
Finally, it will probably be a reminder for you but with this kind of system as with heat pumps, you have to be careful with the type of soil. If you have swelling clays, the situation can be problematic.
0 x
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