Rehabilitate a tower (IGH) in a wind farm?

[hlsb]

Hello,

I am currently working on my architecture degree.
I wanted to confront here a proposal of my project to the opinion of the experts of the renewable energies present on this forum.

A (rather secondary) question of my project concerns the future of a high-rise building (23 floors). Given its isolation, high-rise fire safety regulations, "econological" considerations, and its symbolic importance, it seems relevant not to demolish it but not to inhabit it again.

So I imagine (probably naively) that it could be reused in a wind farm. Several factors play in favor of such an assumption:
- it is located on a plateau near the sea in a region coveted by wind development,
- it presents a long facade of 100 m exposed to prevailing winds,
-It is within a metropolitan area that it could feed locally,
-It would replace a device wind turbines dispersed in the countryside or at sea (with the transformation of the landscape that entails), a compact device already present in the landscape.

My question is therefore: Can such a reconversion seem possible to you, given the specific requirements of wind energy production, current and future technical possibilities, possible nuisances, etc.? If yes, how ? What types of installations are possible?

Some may see what I am proposing as a fad, but I will be very grateful to those who can bring me some answers.

Goods.

[minguinhirigue]

Hi,

I do not think that everyone will see a fad, it is a possible solution, but in practice on an IGH, it is not relevant to convert only to a central. But it may be wise to take advantage of the screen that it is and the venturi effect (on the edges or on the openings, existing or to create) to produce wind power with excellent performance.

Indeed, in theory, the efficiency of wind turbines will never exceed 59% (Betz limit), but this value is to be related to the "surface intercepted by the propeller".
Thus, as for a dam, if your building is 100 m long, the "intercepted wind surface" is substantial, and if it is correctly channeled to a few wind turbines, these can operate exceptionally, without necessarily involving the use. complete of the building as a "wind power plant".

Be careful however, I am an architect myself and I can tell you that something important for a degree in architecture ... it's architecture ... What story has this building? What new functions do you give him? Without ignoring regulatory difficulties such as the IGH regulations, which are not insurmountable ... If by the way you accompany the whole with a large production of Renewable Energies, it's a big plus, but this is not necessarily the essential.

You have already been inspired by the University of Herne Sodingen Jourda and Perraudin, which produces electricity and heat for neighboring buildings ...

Good luck for the continuation, and here is a small link of a tower taking advantage of the venturi effect:
http://www.som.com/content.cfm/pearl_river_tower

Take a look at the operation of wind turbines and possibly a pre-dimensioning on the heoliciel.com website.

[chrisleblay]

1- If it is reinforced concrete, maybe the height could be used to raise water and store it in all the floors in tanks.

2- then principle pumping of water (by the force of the wind turbines) and turbining by the descent of the water.

Make calculations ... to see if the structure would hold and if the generated kwh would be interesting on statistical averages.

[Forhorse]

1- If it is reinforced concrete, maybe the height could be used to raise water and store it in all the floors in tanks.

2- then principle pumping of water (by the force of the wind turbines) and turbining by the descent of the water.

Make calculations ... to see if the structure would hold and if the generated kwh would be interesting on statistical averages.

hum ... FBI

[chrisleblay]

On rainy days it might be possible to recover
the falling water and store it directly in the floors of the tower.

We recover free potential energy.

quick hypothetical calculation:
23 floors - 2.50 m ceiling height
area per floor 250 m2

250 * 2,50 * 23 = 14375 m3

After you have to see with the flow of a turbine what could be generated in kWh.

I do not have the info above .... can be another econologist

[sen-no-sen]

A (rather secondary) question of my project concerns the future of a high-rise building (23 floors). Given its isolation, high-rise fire safety regulations, "econological" considerations, and its symbolic importance, it seems relevant not to demolish it but not to inhabit it again.

Hello!
If I understand correctly, this is a building that is no longer occupied, therefore, the IGH regulations no longer apply to a large extent, the latter being primarily used to prevent fire and panic against occupants and neighbors.
What types of IGH were you referring to? IGH W1,2, IGH O ...?
What exact heights?
Could you put pictures online?
For the possible conversion, it will be necessary to study the various factors of loads and constraints that can apply etc ... is a job!

[elephant]

Here, there is the idea:

https://www.econologie.com/forums/zena-syste ... 10335.html

You can also create a "cage" (a few masonry blocks are enough),
inside to pass the floors, glaze the south, east, and west side down and put a turbine down

(like solar tower Nazaré)

https://www.econologie.com/forums/tour-aero- ... t7015.html

and use the south facade, fill it with solar thermal panels for district heating

But everything is a question of profitability: in large capitals, housing is so expensive that it is often more profitable:

- or boning completely and put everything back to normal (we did it in Paris, not far from the Stade de France there is 8-10 years). If the structure is healthy.

- to cut down, if the structure is completely obsolete.

[hlsb]

Thanks a lot for your answers !

Once again, the heart of my project is elsewhere, I must not dwell too much on this subject. It would be mainly to produce 2-3 images, a front view, a test of transformed plan, as a scientific reverie. I will not go into the calculations!

After discussion with an architect-polytechnician from my school, I speak rather of an experimental research center on renewable energies, in particular, micro-wind.

I'll post you a photo and a map of the tower. The plane is written in a rectangle of 111 by 43 m. There is a base of 3 levels (reused) then 20 tower floors. The set is close to 80 m high.

[dedeleco]

- it is located on a plateau near the sea in a region coveted by wind development,

pushes to take advantage of the height of the plateau (how many hundreds of meters high?) ​​to incorporate an experimental vortex tower of considerable size and not expensive, taking advantage of the existing heights naturally:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tour_solaire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_updraft_tower
with a warm, moist sea level air intake that rises to the top of the tower which can even be raised with a chimney ??????
Warm moist air greatly increases the tornado or cyclone effect of vortex towers.

Experimental allows not to put a very large diameter at the air inlet at the bottom, if the place is missing, but allows to study the pressure and flow rate by chimney effect on a large height and different systems to test on this chimney. great height.

Otherwise wind turbine ideas with venturi by inventor:
https://www.econologie.com/forums/post201230.html#201230
https://www.econologie.com/forums/post201872.html#201872
which can be coupled with the vortex tower.
The building increases the wind speed by 2 to 4 or even more so well designed and therefore by more than 10 the power, for the same wind turbine size in a tunnel that channels and concentrates.
In addition, the wind turbine is almost invisible at the architecture level at the bottom of the tunnel.
It all depends on the direction of the prevailing winds in relation to the building.


The photovoltaic and solar thermal building can be covered with excessive summer heat storage in the land of the plateau or under the building to find it in the winter as already done at:
www.dlsc.ca
https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... mrk29Z.pdf
and discussed on econology in different posts:
https://www.econologie.com/forums/post203921.html#203921
https://www.econologie.com/forums/post201795.html#201795
https://www.econologie.com/forums/post193633.html#193633
https://www.econologie.com/forums/post183779.html#183779
https://www.econologie.com/forums/post183841.html#183841
and free heating of neighboring homes in a perpetual way with the thermal heat of the summer sun kept to heat the winter, heat normally wasted in summer undergoing a heat wave.
Nevertheless, it is an experimental possibility to be developed in France depending on the terrain such as that of the plateau which must not be traversed by water that carries heat, otherwise it is necessary to seal or divert these waters).

The potential to develop this renewable is immense once developed for the different geological terrains, because it allows to heat free perpetually without CO2, without pollution, without expensive fuel, without electric nuclear heating, simply by recovering the wasted solar heat. summer on our roofs to heat the winter by losing all the less that the storage volume is large.
The volume of the basement under this large, sturdy building (half a hectare) is large and can be exploited with boreholes if housing exists to heat in the vicinity.

So at the experimental level for the renewable, there are a lot of solutions to experiment and develop, for extremely cheaper than nuclear EPR or ITER, him with billions.

[dedeleco]

Given the lengths of corridors on the plan, opening at each end, the wind will be highly concentrated as can be seen or feel in some tunnels, in the direction of the wind.
It is possible to place such corridors at right angles for different wind directions.