Ecological and autarkic hotel in Madagascar

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Norbert
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Ecological and autarkic hotel in Madagascar




by Norbert » 16/05/07, 13:54

My name is Norbert Randriamaitso
I am 27 years old, I am mixed French / Malagasy and currently works in Barcelona in IT

Goal :

Build a hotel complex that is the most ecological and self-sufficient
Possible
And this by using local resources so that it is the most
Economic possible
While having standard European comfort
In Madagascar (fenerive-est)

Acquired:
1 beachfront plot of 1 hectares (for the complex)
1 plot of 1 hectare for planting fruit and vegetables and the complete Jean Pain method
Budget 25000 euros (I know it's not much ..)

Location:
Average temperature: 25 ° degrees
Rain: 3.500 mm per year
Humidity: about 70%
(Comparable to Ireland)
sunshine: more than 2.000 hours / year
(Comparable to the south of France)


Organization:
6 bungalows in all (concrete base, bamboo wall, Ravenala roof)
1 central bar / restaurant

3 directly in front of the beach
Le Resto
3 in the rear

Let's come to energy:
Initially I wanted to use the Jean Pain method, a bunch of compost for each 2 bungalows
It would have had hot water and gas to run a gas generator
What made me change my mind:
Apparently a gas generator is not easy to find
The noise that this generator can generate
Maintenance and unsightly

ENERGY:

Bungalows:
Electricity requirement APPROXIMATELY 2000 wh / d (large bungalow)
1300 wh / d (small bungalow)
3000 wh / d (restaurant)
I have not yet had an answer on the size that will make a panel providing this and its price
And not better on a combined photovoltaic system / water heater (which seems to me normally achievable because below the silicon cells it always heats)


Wind turbine, I try to avoid, I just visited one a few days ago
That made a noise like "Fe fe fe .."


WATER:

(dry toilet is obviously necessary)

as it rains a lot -> Rainwater recovery
Problem the green roof is almost everywhere on the island very simple and very practical
I saw that it was not recommended but I did not find the reasons
(It is quite possible for me to put a tin roof below the green roof)


Here I am going to stop here for the moment

I would like to have your opinions and comments already on these solutions

PS: my reference books are "the jean-pain method" and "from the autonomous house to the solidarity economy" by Patrick Baronnet

Thank you
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Targol
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by Targol » 16/05/07, 15:13

Pfiouuuu, large program for low budget.
On the other hand, I think that the local labor must not be too expensive.
This requires choosing solutions using few materials and a lot of manpower.

With a ladle, here are the ideas I would dig if I were you:
  • Use of Canadian wells to regulate the temperature in buildings. It only costs a few pipes and a fan (powered by PV cells?). You can even consider for the bungalows by the beach to make your pipes go into the sea to take advantage of its extraordinary power of thermal buffer (not easy to dig the sand underwater nevertheless). You can also use this thermal power to install a heat pump that would directly pump calories from the sea (you would need a seawater / freshwater exchanger so as not to corrode your PaC too quickly).
  • Use of passive solar energy to avoid any other heating system.
  • As a water heater, you can easily make your own solar water heaters by painting cans in black. This type of water heater is found in a number of hotel residences in Greece on the roof of the bungalows. Admittedly, you do not have hot water before a certain hour but that did not personally bother me when I tested. At worst, you can complete the circuit with another water heating system.
  • As far as electricity is concerned, have you found out about the power stations producing electricity from swell? Otherwise, if the tidal coefficients are large, you could consider a tidal mill: You just have to make a dike defining a basin which fills at high tide and which is emptied through a turbine to produce electricity.


Here. I hope it can help you.

If not, can you tell us what problems pose the recovery of rainwater in the case of a green roof?
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Obelix
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by Obelix » 16/05/07, 15:56

Hello,

I can answer on the energy paragraph:

In photovoltaic solar panels there is a peak power of 100 Watts per square meter this valid for two hours per day for fixed panels.
So we can count on 300 Wh / J / m² sun type south-france
To resume the data:
Large bungalow: 7 m² of panels
Small bungalow: 5 m²
Restaurant: 10 m²

In view of the quantities of panels to be installed, we can estimate the price per m² of panels at 500 Euros purchase price not installed.

Sorry but you're exploding the budget !!!
Especially since it will be necessary to install the panels, the buffer batteries, and the operating circuit ....

I hope that this "fishy" sizing will make you aware of the energy problem ...

Obelix
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zac
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by zac » 16/05/07, 16:09

hi norbert

Do not put sheet metal under the falaffe you would lose all its thermal regulation advantages.

filter your fleet well and don't make it drink at wahazas : Lol: : Lol:

In Fénérif for hot water, which is in need of Malagasy, black pipe and was black will be enough; think to put (anyway) a dry block because the temperature can rise very high in solar in this region.

for lighting, some panels, batteries and diodes; it goes easy.

the problem that you will meet is the cold for the restaurant, see the side of the three-way fridges (220 / 12v AND GAS) or then switch to petrol.

if you want to stay electric on the fridges you will ruin yourself in panels and in battery.

@+
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by elephant » 16/05/07, 23:18

I agree with zac:

there is very little light: after all, reading in bed on vacation before ..... what does it consume? 60 W / h for one hour ?? (to be spread over 10 hours of sunshine)

the biggest problem is generating cold: mini bar in the rooms, restaurant cold room

you can still mount magnetos on exercise bikes in the fitness room :D
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Norbert
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by Norbert » 17/05/07, 10:34

Otherwise I can make the tourists sleep on banana leaves
Under the Malagasy star
Dsl humor… : Cheesy:

For the restaurant:
The cooking
Will be made by solar cooker the day
(An orphan association makes them in Antananarivo for 50 euros each)
Gas at night (I will buy gas bottles until the complete Jean Pain method is implemented on the other site and I will do it with biogas)
3000 euros the crusher… ouch.
I contacted the Jean Pain antenna in Mada (fiananrantsoa)
Who only use the basic jean pain method, that is to say just to have compost
I contacted in Belgium (Londerzeel)
There are open days every 1st Saturday of the month if I remember correctly but they have also abandoned the production of biogas because of lack of budget
Basically I feel alone with my little detailed book On the production of biogas : Cry:

The conversation :
It will be minimal I will try to operate in "just in time"
For the rest I intend to use lactofermentation
And ultimately a small A ++ class fridge
(I did not know trimixte fridges! I will find out about it)

Remarks and questions:
About how long did the water stay warm after the sun went down?

Electricity from the swell -> no I do not know I will inquire and see to what extent it is applicable

If not, can you tell us what problems pose the recovery of rainwater in the case of a green roof?
Precisely I do not know, I tried to find the answer on the net but nothing clear
I guess 2 causes
Leaf debris -> but Ravenala does not crumble easily (different from thatch)
Absorption rate -> but considering what it rains it will always remain "profitable"

Si I have to do without photovoltaic and wind which solutions (the most simple and profitable remains
(Stirling engine, gas generator, etc.)?

And minibar in the rooms there will not be, from a general point of view it is quite rare to see in bungalows in Mada
You will have to drink the coconut punch at the restaurant : Mrgreen:

Thank you
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zac
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by zac » 17/05/07, 12:52

norbert wrote:(I did not know trimixte fridges! I will find out about it)

Remarks and questions:
About how long did the water stay warm after the sun went down?



Hello

see electrolux it is the best quality price (does not buy in France it is the triple of Portugal for example).

badly insulated 12 hours, well a week.

Hello

PS: just-in-time is impossible for mada, if you want a "European" service.
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Targol
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by Targol » 17/05/07, 14:38

norbert wrote:About how long did the water stay warm after the sun went down?


In the hotel center where I went on the island of Paros, the water heaters were simple black cans on the roof of the bungalows (or, at least it did not seem more advanced than that) and, in June, we had hot water from 10:00 to 23:00 approximately.
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Bungalows in Madagascar




by nofy » 17/05/07, 22:57

Good evening Norbert,
With your budget, I think you will have a lot of trouble getting out of it. Already try your 3 sea side bungalows and your restaurant. Do the "things" well if you want to capture a clientele and for that the dry toilets I do not believe it .... For your electricity, with the sea it will not work, because you have no tide in Fénérive . Look a little more at the side of a group of 5 kwa at GO (not Chinese), because if you go into a wind turbine you will explode your budget. Now, if you want the Jean Pain method, it's possible, but you have to master the subject well, and in this case, you need a gasoline unit (cheaper) with a GPL adaptation. For your rainwater, the problem is to recover it, and the gutters at the bottom of the bungalows, not very pretty !! but that remains a good solution, provided that the water is diverted at the start of each rain, in order to rinse the roof. See if you can make a well. For the cold, big big problem if you do not have electricity ... One of the solutions is the petroleum freezer that you can only find in Tana, at Tana Confort, very expensive (15 million FMG) and that you have to try it on the spot, with bottled water, because once in two, it is not cold. Good luck.
Nofy (dream)
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Norbert
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by Norbert » 26/05/07, 02:03

Good evening Nofy

"
With your budget, I think you will have a lot of trouble getting out of it. Try your 3 sea side bungalows and your restaurant. Do the "things" well if you want to attract a clientele and for that the dry toilets I do not believe it .... "
I understand your point of view
I estimated compared to analyze the various solutions for that, it turns out that it is "econologically" much better the dry toilets that is why I adopted this solution

"For your electricity, with the sea that won't work, because you don't have a tide at Fénérive."
I agree

"if you go into a wind turbine you will explode your budget"
I do not think it is expensive, I will not use the wind turbine in the complex itself, especially for personal taste

"Now, if you want the Jean Pain method, it's possible, but you have to master the subject well, and in this case, you need a gasoline unit (cheaper) with a GPL adaptation"
as you saw above I looked for help but I found little of it that's why I'm going to ask myself on this point

"For your rainwater, the problem is to collect it, and the gutters at the bottom of the bungalows, not very pretty !! but that's still a good solution, as long as you divert the water at the start of each rain, in order to rinse the roof"
I put ecology before aesthetics which does not mean that I will neglect it

"For the cold, big big problem if you don't have electricity ... One of the solutions is the petroleum freezer that you can only find in Tana, at Tana Confort, very expensive (15 million FMG) and that 'You have to try it on the spot, with bottled water, because once in two, it doesn't get cold.
"
the solar fridge by adsorption seems to be a solution I put myself in contact with the Swiss association which made some for the burkina faso at the moment

---
here in fact I am not trying to make a mini-club med and it is for this reason that it is original and that it is a challenge, even financially the fact of having a small budget pushes to find ecological solutions to human size"
I try to do and show that it is possible to have a pleasant place to live, while preserving our mother earth as well as the wallet
for all who feel like babies fed with a bottle filled with uranium and oil may have an example, an alternative

I think I now have to brush up on the project by posting it here, I will now go into detail on the solutions chosen by posting in the corresponding sections

Thank you
I will keep you posted

Ps: I'm leaving in July to meet my architect
since the broadband (128 k) has just moved to Mada for 80 euros / month : Shock:
I will be more present on the net
I'll just have my 12kb analog connection :|
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