Sandwich plank house

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choupi_ced
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Sandwich plank house




by choupi_ced » 29/11/06, 16:12

Hello,

my question is simple:
what do you think of sandwich planks (40 mm of wood - 80 mm of expanded polystyrene insulation - 40 mm of wood)?
efficiency? ecological or not? maybe not too much?

thanks.
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bham
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Re: Sandwich plank house




by bham » 29/11/06, 16:36

choupi_ced wrote:Hello,

my question is simple:
what do you think of sandwich planks (40 mm of wood - 80 mm of expanded polystyrene insulation - 40 mm of wood)?
efficiency? ecological or not? maybe not too much?

Well, polystyrene is not a model of ecological product, by its manufacture and by the gas which escapes from it if I remember correctly. Rather opt for cellulose or cotton wool flakes or cork in granules (20 cm will be enough) or raw sheep wool (not expensive).
Otherwise, if you can not choose, change the structure and opt for a log construction. I have a friend who does it with his wife.
50 m2 for 50 € all finished! He delivers it to you everywhere and you no longer need insulation (it's still a log 000 to 30 cm in diameter !!! : Shock: : Cheesy: ) If you want pictures, I send you some.
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by Christophe » 29/11/06, 16:39

Uh I do not quite understand the real meaning of the question since on this subject your decision to build such a house was taken right?

https://www.econologie.com/forums/quel-type- ... t2682.html
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choupi_ced
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by choupi_ced » 29/11/06, 18:24

exact christopher.

I misspoke my sentence on the other subject.

it is a wish because we also hesitate with solid wood planks with a thickness of 135 but we are afraid for the insulating dimension !!

my excuses.
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by momotopo » 29/11/06, 21:35

Finnish solid wood house manufacturers sell uninsulated planks, arguing that in Finland, the same houses are not insulated by -40 °, so why insulate by - 10 ° in France. France-Finland insulates only the ground and the roof spaces.

At the same time, French regulations impose an insulator for each construction (RT2000) so French manufacturers insulate.

Personally, I don't know what to think because insulation always poses concerns over time, wood or linen wool can be prone to mold, glass or rock wool is not very good for health, foams no more. I would prefer the solution of large planks without insulation, but I ask myself the same question ??
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by bolton069 » 30/11/06, 15:38

Finnish solid wood house manufacturers sell uninsulated planks, arguing that in Finland, the same houses are not insulated by -40 °, so why insulate by - 10 ° in France.


Hello,
personally I am not convinced by this argument, I have a friend who built like that in Brittany, I will see his house at the end of the year, I will tell you more from January.

But the sales pitch of his salesman seemed lame to me. "16cm of logs insulates as well as 2m of concrete".

Which is true, but concrete is not an insulator, I did the calculation with data found in books and on the net of lambda special Finnish wood used (whose name I forgot), and it turned out that: 16cm wood = 2m concrete = 4 cm of glass wool : Shock: which is immediately much less flattering, which means that such a house is much less well insulated than a traditional modern construction, and up to standards, unfortunately. : Evil:

So be careful what you are looking for, in general people who opt for this kind of house do so for ecological reasons. Such a wooden house is made of materials that are safe(it remains to be seen what type of glue the glued laminated timber contains) but is certainly not energy efficient. (bioclimatic)

The argument that I have also heard before: "Yes, but at least with such a house I pollute once by bringing the wood from Finland by truck, then finished for the whole life" can also legitimately be questioned if we take into account the additional heating needs required by such a house compared to a traditional house, or better bioclimatic or passive over several years.

:?: If anyone has any feedback regarding houses made from these "exotic" woods, or native species that do not require pest treatment, that interests me too, because I have a hard time. to accept that these woods never require wood treatment and are perfectly resistant to parasites, I hope to be wrong on the other hand that would be nice.
:?:

PS: I'm not particularly against this type of construction, I really like the warmth of wood, but you have to make an informed choice.

Sorry if it's too off topic. [/ B]
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bham
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by bham » 03/01/07, 09:57

bolton069 wrote:
Finnish solid wood house manufacturers sell uninsulated planks, arguing that in Finland, the same houses are not insulated by -40 °, so why insulate by - 10 ° in France.

But the sales pitch of his salesman seemed lame to me. "16cm of logs insulates as well as 2m of concrete".
16cm wood = 2m concrete = 4 cm of glass wool : Shock: which is immediately much less flattering, which means that such a house is much less well insulated than a traditional modern construction, and up to standards, unfortunately. : Evil:

I come back to the subject by indicating a site ideesmaison.com/15-facons-de-construire-au-banc.html on which you will find a calculator allowing to compose your wall and to see its thermal resistance, its transfer time ( summer heat), ... etc. It's very interesting. The thermal regulation 2000 (RT2000) says that you need a minimum wall R of 2.40, ie about 100 mm of glass wool / rock, ... Starting from there, I amused myself by calculating what thickness of wood it takes to arrive at this value. So I composed my wall with 30cm of wood, 1cm of hemp wool and 1cm of fermacell and there I discovered that my 30 cm of wood has a thermal resistance R of 2,5 and therefore equivalent to 11/12 cm of wool glass / rock and that the transfer time (21h47) allows an interesting phase shift in summer.
So if you build in thick logs (mini 30cm diameter), it is not necessary to insulate and you have wood inside as outside.
If you have a wood thickness of 16 cm, the R drops to 1,33, so you must provide an insulator, provide 5/7 cm of hemp wool to arrive at R = 2,4 / 2,8 but if you want interior wood, it will be necessary to replace at least the paneling. By cons, in terms of transfer time, it is not the best, it would be better to put wood wool, more expensive.
In short, have fun with this calculator to build your wall for the best results.

bolton069 wrote: If anyone has any feedback regarding houses made from these "exotic" woods, or native species that do not require pest treatment, that interests me too, because I have a hard time. to accept that these woods never require wood treatment and are perfectly resistant to parasites, I hope to be wrong on the other hand that would be nice.
:?:

Massive wooden chalets were brought back from Russia to France and rotted, while in Russia the wood has not budged for decades. Why ? because of the climate. In Russia, it is "hot" for 2/3 months and cold and DRY the rest of the time but in France, depending on the region, the weather is often humid and temperate, which allows the proliferation of fungi, molds, ... ... hence the obligation to use wood that does not rot, such as Douglas-fir, Scots pine, red cedar, which does not prevent them from applying a natural stain based on linseed oil, for example.

Come on and then HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE.
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by antoinet111 » 03/01/07, 10:13

hi BHAM, I want pictures.
thanks.
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by bham » 04/01/07, 08:51

antoinet111 wrote:hi BHAM, I want pictures.
thanks.

No problem ! you send me your email address by MP stp, it will be easier. Thank you.
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bolton069
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Thanks bham too




by bolton069 » 04/01/07, 17:24

Thank you for the clarification,

if you have pictures that interests me too.

I heard that the chestnut was also rot-proof, it must be I suppose a more common essence in our regions than "Douglas fir, Scots pine, red cedar" can someone confirm? Bham?

Regarding the thicknesses of logs and their equivalent in glass wool / hemp or other, I suppose that the differences between our calculations come from the origins of the lambda coefficients used for the calculations. By doing my little calculation, I had in mind logs of 16cm. I will check according to several sources.

In addition you are referring to the RT2000, but it seems to me that now it is the more restrictive RT2005 which is in use in France. Who can help us on this point? : Shock: :?:

My reasoning is also the following, usually people who build wood. (well, the few I know personally at least.)

Do so from an ecological, natural perspective, respecting nature. Therefore, I find it unfortunate to stop at the sole choice of the "healthier" basic material instead of pushing the reasoning to the limit and making a wooden house, certainly, but also very well insulated. In order to pollute as little as possible over the life of the house and not only during its construction.

But that's another question I grant you.

To return to the subject, the PS or PU must see its use limited to cases where space is essential, and where the release of harmful gas is not disturbing. So not for a new construction, moreover it is not a very cheap insulator either.

The proposed wall: 40mm wood - 80mm expanded PS - 40mm wood

°According to data found on wikipedia:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conductivi ... _thermique

R = 0.04 / 0.15 + 0.08 / 0.03 + 0.04 / 0.15 = 3.2

°According to house ideas calculations:

R = 0.04 / 0.12 + 0.08 / 0.039 + 0.04 / 0.12 = 2.72

The results therefore vary a lot depending on the sources of information, but, at worst, we can hope for an R of 2.72 for your plank wall, which corresponds well to the wall R> 2.4 cited by bham above for the RT2000.

Yours. 8) Happy New Year 2007 and following.
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