Canadian Well: Materials Prohibited?

Forhorse · by **Forhorse** » 29/08/12, 12:00

Hello everybody

For my house I would like to make a Canadian well. For this purpose I bought the book "The Canadian Well" by Bruno Herzog (Eyrolles editions) reading it was very useful to me in planning my project and has already saved me from doing anything stupid.

Currently I am digging the foundations of what will serve as a technical room for our house. Ideal time to predict the entry into the house of the Canadian well tube.
However, I find myself facing a problem of choice of materials.
I saw that for a Canadian well, it was necessary to avoid the PVC tubes (because of VOC that they release) and to privilege more "noble" materials. So I am thinking of opting for vitrified glass.
However, for entry into the house this matter seems difficult to implement and I preferred a synthetic material.
Except the tubes "special Canadian well" in polypropylene for example, are overpriced, even for the few meters necessary.

So, is it really harmful to use PVC on the last 5-6 meters well? (I think 250 PVC that already has a significant price)
What do you think ?

sen-no-sen · by **sen-no-sen** » 29/08/12, 13:11

5-6 meters it starts to do a lot, you risk losing all the benefits of your sheath sandstone .... it would be a shame!
The best is to use food grade polyethylene in this case, but it's not given!

Forhorse · by **Forhorse** » 29/08/12, 13:16

I looked on the side of the EP, it seems to be a good alternative, the price of the bars is still reasonable right against the elbows eil : Shock:

I need only an elbow at 90 ° but it would cost almost 50% of the full price of the link.
Unless you put PE tube and a PVC elbow? (in 250 the price of a bend even in PVC is already not negligible)

In general, with the EP the problem is the links. I looked, just a simple self-seal sleeve (you still have to rent the machine behind) in 250 costs more than 700 € : Shock:

Grelinette · by **Grelinette** » 29/08/12, 15:05

Given the prices of all these materials, it may be possible to use flexible aluminum or plastic vent pipes of large diameters.

On the one hand the prices are not excessive, and on the other hand, these tubes being planned for ventilation of dwelling, I imagine that they do not contain harmful substances. In addition it is very simple to handle.

On the other hand, if they are buried they will not support the pressure of the earth and it is necessary to envisage a system to avoid their crushing.

The solution could be to use a length of these aluminum tubes inside a PVC pipe just for the rotating parts.

chatelot16 · by **chatelot16** » 29/08/12, 15:21

the goal of the Canadian well is to take advantage of a large area of contact with the ground

it is the pipe surface which counts, it is the volume of material of the pipes which costs: to reduce this cost it is necessary to reduce the thickness of the pipes

a big pipe is necessarily thicker than a small ... so it is better a multitude of small pipes than one big

and to take advantage of a bundle of small pipes it is better to pass water than air

Grelinette · by **Grelinette** » 29/08/12, 15:37

chatelot16 wrote:the goal of the Canadian well is to take advantage of a large area of contact with the ground
it is the pipe surface that counts, ...

therefore, a fluted pipe seems interesting.

chatelot16 wrote:a big pipe is necessarily thicker than a small ... so it is better a multitude of small pipes than one big

and to take advantage of a bundle of small pipes it is better to pass water than air

If it's water, it's no longer a Canadian well, and I think it's a lot more complicated (and more expensive) to circulate the fluid.

chatelot16 · by **chatelot16** » 29/08/12, 16:00

the earth being bad conductor it is necessary to increase the surface while going to look for the earth farther away: the surface of a small pipe of more farther is useful, the surface gained by the ripple of a pipe does not serve anything

a water circuit more expensive than an air circuit? No efficiency equal I find the solution to water more economical

now it remains to know exactly what will serve this Canadian well ... there are cases where the Canadian well is useless at all

Forhorse · by **Forhorse** » 29/08/12, 18:14

Canadian wells with water circulation exist, we find on the internet kits that contain everything you need to build one (in principle it's simple: a long length of PE pipe, a circulator and a water exchanger -air)
it has several advantages: already much less problem of choice of materials as exposed here so no risk of air pollution, simpler civil engineering (the establishment of a conventional Canadian well requires great rigor in the earthworks to avoid the formation of cuvettes in the pipe) no worries of evacuation of condensates, no problem of the positioning of the air intake.
Now, to be as efficient as a real Canadian well, it requires a real big water-to-air heat exchanger and then there is also extra electricity (circulator) in addition to the classic fan. It is also necessary to fill the antifreeze circuit (even if the goal is normally that it never freezes)

But after reflection, I wonder if finally I will not opt for this solution ...
I'm coming back from Fransbonhomme and apart from kits all made to several thousand euros, they sell nothing dedicated to the Canadian wells: no possibility of buying tubes or fittings retail.
For my entry from home I have no choice, it is PVC or nothing, and it has already a significant price (in 250 the PVC is 28 € meter and the animal elbow 90 is € 140)
in the end it makes me almost 400 € investment for a reservation of something that can only be done in 5 years! it may be hard to make a profit ...
While placing two TPC sheaths on hold to pass two 2 PE pipes later that makes a negligible investment and no regrets if the Canadian well is never done.

chatelot16 · by **chatelot16** » 29/08/12, 21:29

the polyethylene pipes support the gel very well without bursting so no need for antifreeze

if the goal is to cool in summer, the water can be sent in heated floors

for the winter I do not see what the simple Canadian well can serve

to ventilate in winter a double flow heat exchanger makes the air hotter than the Canadian well

in winters the cold heat of the soil can only be used for a heat pump

unless used for frosting a dwelling when it is disturbed by passing water from the ground into a heated floor

Grelinette · by **Grelinette** » 30/08/12, 09:09

Forhorse wrote:Canadian wells with water circulation [...]
after reflection, I wonder if finally I will not opt for this solution ...

I do not know if my question is good but a Canadian (or Provençal) who sends fresh or hot air can settle pretty easily on any home: it is enough to have a mouth of arrival which propels the air from the basement directly into the home with a simple filtration.

On the other hand, it seems to me that an installation with a water circulator, even if the principle is more effective, must have been planned for the construction with a heated floor or a plumbing system distributing the coolant in the house.

Unless transferring the calories of the fluid to the air that will be propelled into the home, but in this case is there any loss of calorie transfer that makes this technique less efficient?

Is my question good?

Are there any comparative sketches of these Canadian 2 technical puzzles?

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Canadian Well: Materials Prohibited?

Canadian Well: Materials Prohibited?

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