Biodegradable bags compostable or not?

[phil53]

On some biodegradable bags it is written that they are compostable.
It seems to me that there are still particles of plastic (from oil) in their composition.
Is this true for some only, what about ink?
How to recognize them if some are made only of organic matter?
I have a priori, for now I do not put them to compost.
Of course the first step is to limit the consumption because if it is a solution to limit the bags that kill for decades, these new bags can not be used to something else.
Not even in garbage bags because they tear very easily.

[Ahmed]

I somewhat doubt that all of the substance in the bag is biodegradable; those I had been aware of had a certain proportion based on corn starch, a proportion sufficient to "unravel" the molecules of the film. And there are the inks ...
Paper bags are inherently easily degradable, but contain glue and also inks that produce suspiciously colored flames when burned.

On the other hand, the durability of the usual plastic bag is a disadvantage only because it is intended for a single use, if it was reused it would be on the contrary a definite advantage. The idea of ​​making them more or less biodegradable, if it avoids finding them everywhere disseminated (which is rather a good thing), endorses the concept of single use, which does not go in the right direction.

[phil53]

Ahmed I am of your opinion the biodegradable is a nonsense that is promoted by manufacturers allowing them to continue their buisiness.
And the slackers or the naive are taking the concept for an innovation whereas it is decoy but especially not a real answer to the problem.

[Arthurbg]

Compostable bags: the true of the false
http://www.sciencepresse.qc.ca/actualite/detecteur-rumeurs/2017/05/19/sacs-compostables-vrai-faux
May 26 2018:
Are these new plastics made from corn starch or potato starch all right? Not that easy.
https://www.nouvelobs.com/planete/20180524.OBS7144/le-bioplastique-est-il-vraiment-ecolo.html
Are biodegradable plastic bags really effective?
"It's worse for the environment"
But in Belgium - where these bags are prohibited - Bruno De Wilde, researcher from the independent laboratory Organic Waste Systems, doubts it. All the bags he tested are destroyed after a few weeks in the soil, but all fail the chemical test. “There are still microplastics in the medium. If the plastic is fragmented, one wonders which is best for the environment: plastics in large pieces or some kind of plastic powder that you can no longer pick up? , I think it's worse for the environment, "he told France 2
https://www.francetvinfo.fr/monde/environnement/les-sacs-plastiques-biodegradables-sont-ils-vraiment-efficaces_866781.html
https://cycl-add.com/pourquoi-les-sacs-plastiques-biodegradables-ne-sont-pas-une-solution-ecologique-pour-la-france/
2005 date:
https://www.ademe.fr/sites/default/files/assets/documents/28300_acv_sacs_carrefour_2004.pdf
Future or illusion:
Biodegradable plastic bags made from limestone
https://www.futura-sciences.com/planete/actualites/eco-consomation-sacs-plastique-biodegradables-faits-partir-calcaire-72180/
In 2017:
Launch of the ADEME study on compostable plastic bags
Normally available end 2018:
https://www.organeo.com/2809/

The color depends on the molecules, the cooking salt will produce yellow
https://lehollandaisvolant.net/?d=2012/09/05/19/59/19-dou-vient-la-couleur-dune-flamme

[Did67]

I think that it is always necessary to differentiate matches and beams ...

Normally, shopping bags are now re-usable and even, in principle, exchanged when they are damaged ... This should be the rule.

There are still "sachets" to wrap fruit, cheese, etc ... Indeed, this should be replaced by paper, whose "green" record is far from "light": cutting trees, the paper industry is quite polluting (especially when its waters are not, little or badly reprocessed - I would not want to go to the depths of Malaysia, the Philippines, etc ...

But on the other hand, let's not obscure the beam of food "packaged" in blisters (sometimes two slices of ham), pots (yogurts and other dairy deserts), bottled water, etc. 'this is where the deposit and re-use should be reinstated (discarded, in France, for "technical" reasons - note that if the washing water is not available ad infinitum, under our climates, it remains, in my eyes, a "fairly" renewable resource - the energy question to "hygienize" is a little more difficult). This is where we should attack our behavior changes [but I'm not up to date either!]

[Moindreffor]

I think that it is always necessary to differentiate matches and beams ...

Normally, shopping bags are now re-usable and even, in principle, exchanged when they are damaged ... This should be the rule.

There are still "sachets" to wrap fruit, cheese, etc ... Indeed, this should be replaced by paper, whose "green" record is far from "light": cutting trees, the paper industry is quite polluting (especially when its waters are not, little or badly reprocessed - I would not want to go to the depths of Malaysia, the Philippines, etc ...

But on the other hand, let's not obscure the beam of food "packaged" in blisters (sometimes two slices of ham), pots (yogurts and other dairy deserts), bottled water, etc. 'this is where the deposit and re-use should be reinstated (discarded, in France, for "technical" reasons - note that if the washing water is not available ad infinitum, under our climates, it remains, in my eyes, a "fairly" renewable resource - the energy question to "hygienize" is a little more difficult). This is where we should attack our behavior changes [but I'm not up to date either!]

Ben plastic bags caught in a fence, forming a beautiful garland that makes a beautiful photo, to have the same result with bottles must photograph the collection after an operation clean up the nature, we focus on the visible and the media, not on the bottle we throw every day

[to be chafoin]

Personally I have already tried to incorporate these bags in the compost or on the ground. Result, I quickly abandoned the idea: I found these bags as they are at the bottom of the compost, even making a film blocking ventilation, or cut into several pieces ... even months or even a year after. Well, now maybe the new bags are different, and it's true that my composter is not really well managed ...

[Christophe]

I have precisely the same concerns with "supposedly" biodegradable diapers ...composted 8 YEARS AGO !!

I changed my compost of place a few months ago and I discovered almost intact layers!

Obviously these diapers were more expensive than the "disposables" for their (false?) Virtues of biodegradability ...

I hesitate to talk about consumer deception (I do not remember any more of the brand ...)?

In 2008, I did a biodegradability test with a starch pen without success: Waste-and-recycling / starch-de-but-test-to-biodegradability-and-a-pen-t6726.html

[Did67]

I believe that question "biodegradability", there are two techniques:

a) introduce UV-sensitive molecules into the polymers, which weakens them, as long as they are exposed to sunlight! Underground, obviously, more UV, and therefore more "splitting" ...

If you want to take the cabbage, there is this: https://tel.archives-ouvertes.fr/tel-01333562/document

b) using starch-based polymers; there, it is the polymer which is itself biodegradable, since the food of the organisms which digest it ... These plastics are said "based on starches", "compostable" ...

OK compost

ALPAGRO Plastics' biodegradable packaging is certified by Vinçotte's OK compost label. This means that the degradability of the packaging in an industrial composting plant is guaranteed (at temperatures from 55 to 60 ° C). This is true for the entire BioBag: both inks and additives meet the stringent requirements of the European standard for compostable packaging (EN 13432: 2000).

OK compost HOME

Many of our organic packaging also bears the OK compost HOME label from Vinçotte. These products are composted at lower and less constant temperatures, such as those found in the compost bin in the garden. Domestic composting is a more difficult and slower process than in an industrial composting environment. At home, 100% biodegradability can only be guaranteed if specific requirements are met. This is why an additional certification label was needed.
This is, without ads, this type of products:

https://www.alpagro-plastics.be/fr/bio/certificats

I have not looked into the standards, but these are well "compostable" (at temperatures of 60/65 ° C rarely - if not never - reached in domestic composts!).

The first are said to be "biodegradable" (which is a bit swollen). Basically, they only hang a few months in a tree or a fence!

[Christophe]

Thank you Did67 for these clarifications, so there is, at least, 2 types of biodegradability ...

On a fairly long scale, a lot of things are "biodegradable" ... just as oil can be considered "renewable" ...

The news of the moment: plastic bags soluble in water.

Chilean engineers develop water-soluble and non-polluting plastic bags

"Our product is a derivative of limestone which has no impact on the environment," Roberto Astete, director of the Chilean company SoluBag, explained at a press conference on Tuesday.

This may be the beginning of a revolution in the protection of the environment. Several Chilean engineers presented on Tuesday 24 July, plastic bags soluble in water ... and non-polluting. Their secret? They succeeded in replacing oil with limestone in the chemical formula for making these bags.

"Our product is a derivative of limestone which has no impact on the environment", explained Roberto Astete, director of the Chilean company SoluBag, during a press conference in Santiago (Chile).

"It's like baking bread," he added. “To make bread, you need flour and other ingredients. Our flour is polyvinyl alcohol [water soluble] and other ingredients, approved by the FDA [the US agency responsible for of food safety and medicines], which allowed us to manufacture various "plastic products" with this material.
Bags dissolved in water, cold or hot

In addition to the classic bag, these Chilean researchers also presented a reusable canvas bag. The latter, more resistant, dissolves in hot water, while the first, made of plastic, is soluble in cold water.

Once the bags are dissolved, "there is carbon in the water," explained Roberto Astete. Which "has no effect on the human body," he continued before drinking the water. "Now you can recycle [the bags] in your pot or your washing machine," he said.

The big difference between the traditional plastic and ours is that the first will stay between 150 and 500 years in the wild and ours only five minutes. We decide when we destroy it.Roberto Astete, director of SoluBaglors of a press conference

SoluBag hopes to market this product as early as October in Chile. The country is one of the first in Latin America to ban the use of traditional plastic bags.

According to these engineers, the cost of their product and its manufacturing method is similar to that of the current plastic bags. Just change the formula

http://www.informaction.info/iframe-des ... -polluants