Manufacturing a cane planting for practitioners phénoculteurs?

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Ahmed
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Manufacturing a cane planting for practitioners phénoculteurs?




by Ahmed » 29/11/16, 13:11

The end of the title is meant to be a nod, distinguishing between those who are convinced of the merits of phenoculture and those who actually put it into practice. This is just to emphasize that this subject is intended to be practice oriented.

The use of cane to plant has already been briefly discussed as an interesting possibility, both to facilitate planting through the hay layer and also to make the use of planting more systematic (except those of the small number of vegetables that only come from sowing in place), insofar as this overcomes the constraints specific to phenoculture: spring shift in the establishment of vegetables and fragility of young seedlings at emergence against predators (this last point is observed also in more usual practices).

I had indicated to Did the reference of a cane of Scandinavian origin: I will have to publish a photo for things to be sharper. I studied this device which is well built and quite ingenious, but my optics has always been self-construction, both for reasons of economy (not for personal reasons since I have one of these rods) , because it is a certain investment, and especially by inclination towards a maximum of autonomy: to make your tool and to use it then is a source of satisfaction not quantifiable, therefore considerable (what is bought has no value ).

After examination, it appears to me that a copy or a partial inspiration of the Scandinavian cane is not a good idea, because its design is thought for a mass production: many small parts, some components difficult to manufacture without very specialized equipment that is not usually found in a handyman workshop, raw materials that are difficult to obtain for an individual.
The general idea is to start from common components, inexpensive and easy to find (and perhaps to recover, which would be even better) and of a design flexible enough to adapt to variants, depending on the possibilities and various tools.

The important functional dimension is that of the diameter of the tube, the rest being grafted onto it: I think that 60 mm (which is that of the Scandinavian model) constitutes an adequate dimension, in any case a starting point.
There is also the choice of tube shape: round or square? It is up to everyone to decide, knowing that a round tube can use square clods; I would therefore not take a position for this criterion, especially since each achievement should, in my opinion, be modulated according to what everyone can recover around him.
In a next message, I will publish the photo of the Scandinavian cane to better fix the spirits, then, if all goes well, we will put our hands in the grease! : Lol:
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Re: Making a cane to plant for practicing growers?




by Did67 » 29/11/16, 16:07

Ahmed wrote:
There is also the choice of tube shape: round or square? It is up to everyone to decide, knowing that a round tube can use square clods; I would therefore not take a position for this criterion, especially since each achievement should, in my opinion, be modulated according to what everyone can recover around him.



Excellent initiative!

Likewise, a square tube can use round clods, right ??? With each time a "loss" of dimension (circle circumscribed to the square or circle inscribed in the square) ... No?

Working only with rounds (round tube / pots or round clods) no doubt "optimizes" the cane, if the tube is adjusted to the diameter of the pots ... At the cost of losing the arrangement of the pots under the frame.

The square pots are more convenient under the frame, and take up all the space ...

But it's about quibbling.

PS: For information, this morning, we set up a plot of 100 m² at the agricultural school in Obernai; some students like; I had introduced with a tour de table: "do you think that we can produce vegetables in a significant way without any tillage?" ; to conclude, before moving on to practical work, with excerpts from my videos where we see the result (a sort of "medley" of excerpts from videos); which prompted a second round of questions ...
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Re: Making a cane to plant for practicing growers?




by Ahmed » 29/11/16, 17:53

Yes, you are absolutely right about the possibility of planting clods in square tubes, with of course the restrictions of use related to the geometry ... But, as I said, I do not am not fixed on the profile of the tube: we must see what it is possible to obtain, that does not change anything in the design, since I envision a structure independent of the tube which would then only have the function of guiding fill. What is important is that this tube remains at a reasonable weight ...

which prompted a second burst of questions ...
I think you have quite the capacity to support a heavy fire! : Lol:
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Re: Making a cane to plant for practicing growers?




by Did67 » 29/11/16, 18:21

For questions, I was delighted with the quality of certain reflections ...

For the cane, it's still a scoop, but I might land in 8 / 10 days! Without the knowledge of your own free will !!!!!!!!!!!

I am going to explore the "market" for lost pots, in "papier mache". I tried glued coconut fiber jars: not satisfactory; the bonded fiber was clearly an obstacle (only partially, of course), to the roots. While with the Gifipots, it abounded with roots ... But they are "fragile" and crumble when watered several times ...
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Re: Making a cane to plant for practicing growers?




by Ahmed » 29/11/16, 20:14

No problem for your unexpected landing! : Lol:

For containers, there are also other possibilities: clod press and culture plates. The first system involves a pressing tool and a special potting soil, which is rather intended for professionals; the culture plates are well suited for amateur use and very practical. It is also possible to make them yourself, which is only of real interest for very specific applications / needs *.
The individual pots can certainly be grouped in crates (this is even the usual way of proceeding), but I find the individual preliminary manipulation tedious.

* I had made multipot plates from strips cut from hard polystyrene plates and assembled "halfway", with the addition of vertical ribs, to obtain anti-bun containers (to raise trees); this plastic sticks by "welding" it to acetone (a polystyrene solvent).
¤ The roots hardly cross accentuated angles and statistically, if the pot includes several angles, they end up heading downwards where they are self-surrounded in the air (bottomless pot), which fixes the direction of the root primary and induces the development of numerous axillaries, therefore of the "hairy"; when planted in place, the axillae regress and the primary root resumes its elongation.
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Re: Making a cane to plant for practicing growers?




by Ahmed » 03/12/16, 20:30

Good, as promised, but with some delay "due to technical problems beyond our control" : Lol: , here is the photo:
IMG0006A.jpg

In this design, the tube is a structural element on which the annex members are fixed; the other possibility consists in working out an independent structure on which all the organs are attached, including the tube: it is rather in this sense that I will orient myself (but it is without any exclusivity). The other rod, which has been seen in the videos, is opened and closed by the combined action of a manual lever in relation to a fixed lever, while the latter is operated by a pedal kept open by a pivoting lock; a trigger (located on the left of the photo) close to the handle allows to close the spout before pushing the cane back into the ground.
In the video system, the operator coordinates his movements to open or close the levers at the right time. I would rather look for a synthesis of these two solutions, for reasons of simplicity: I keep the idea of ​​a foot lever which seems practical and, for maintaining in the open position during the withdrawal of the cane, a simple rocking spring . An action of the foot under the pedal would cause the spring to act in the other direction and this time would maintain in the closed position. This is my preliminary assumption in principle, to see next how to do this practically.
As for the tube, I found in my "archives" a PVC gutter downpipe which is 60 mm internal diameter: it is therefore a standard size easy to obtain. The other advantage is that it is light. For the mouthpiece, I also have in reserve the tube of 60 outside, so easy to bring to the appropriate dimension (with a little persuasion!). The longitudinal structural element that will make the connection between the top handle and the bottom spout will be a still undetermined steel tube (although I'm eyeing the round tubes of an old garden chair that I saved from a go without returning to the recycling center and who owes me that much ... 8) ).

A parenthesis for apprentice builders: in steel, the robustness of a profile depends on its thickness, but also on its carbon content and, when you want to be light (as in this case), you have to aim for qualities of steel with fairly good mechanical characteristics (what is found more in a tube seat than in falls from a central heating installation, for example and so as not to go into too technical details) .

To be continued...
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Re: Making a cane to plant for practicing growers?




by phil53 » 04/12/16, 07:53

The clod falls by gravity doesn't it?
What do you recommend as a game?
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Re: Making a cane to plant for practicing growers?




by Did67 » 04/12/16, 09:10

I also think that a pedal is more suitable in our case. I start from the principle that an unworked soil, even "aggravated", at the end of winter, can put up some resistance ... When I plant my buckets with a transplanter, I often put several "vigorous stabs" .. .

It is therefore necessary to have the "means" to explain oneself with the ground and a good pedal stroke seems adequate to me. We can play, with experience, on the length of the lever arm so as to obtain the necessary opening without too much force.

I think it may be necessary two pedals: one fixed, to push the device well, at least when it does not fit like butter, before opening the mouthpiece; the other then opening the beak. This would slow progress considerably, but allows you to work standing up, compared to a manual dibbler. And if it comes in by itself, we press directly on the second. ??????????????

The videos of planting canes that we see in general are shot in dead milled soils (it is the case to say it), so there, in effect, the cane enters the ground just by "pricking" it. 'a quick gesture. I don't think that here will always be the case.
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Re: Making a cane to plant for practicing growers?




by izentrop » 04/12/16, 10:37

Just links on the canes to plant http://forum.latelierpaysan.org/canne-p ... t2483.html
and seed cane used in Brazil http://forum.latelierpaysan.org/viewtop ... 154&t=2482
and comments by Laurent Welch https://www.mixcloud.com/GR_CIVAM_PACA/ ... A0-planter

It is not at the feet but sharp enough to be planted with momentum?

Ahmed's cane in action I think? https://youtu.be/hOB4r22yDvg?t=81 There is a pedal to depress.
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Re: Making a cane to plant for practicing growers?




by izentrop » 04/12/16, 11:10

Not very difficult to achieve this one https://video-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t42 ... e=584413DB
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