agricultural crisis of milk and meat in France: what works?

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Christophe
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agricultural crisis of milk and meat in France: what works?




by Christophe » 26/02/16, 19:54

It's been a month since there has been a great crisis in the sector of small and medium-sized farmers in France (the big ones receive so much aid that they are millionaires by far), I'm not telling you anything ...

90% of the arguments I hear in the debates are based solely on the sale price: too low, because dictated by the large distribution ... bin I do not agree even if I agree (read the after)

It's true and it's a concern: the selling price of any product must be set by the seller, not the buyer. It is the basis of all fair trade!

And all work deserves wages, it is not normal to lose money when you work! Only a balance sheet it is not only the entries (finally the accounting departures speaking) it is also the exits (the accounting entries therefore ...)!

The short circuits mentioned in many debates are only part of the solution because:

a) When I hear that farmers who complain because they are paid "only" 0.3 € / L for milk while Milk is sold around 1 € to the consumer (or less: I find organic milk at 0.8 € / L) ... I find that this margin is not at all abusive because there are at least 2 more intermediaries (the co-operative or the factory that bottles and the final seller) + VAT (6% but still 6%) and I think they should go for a ride in China, India or Bangladesh to compare!

b) Everyone talks about the downstream, the "big bad" of mass distribution (it may be true but it's not just them ... read more) but what about loads upstream? I would like to see a balance sheet of an agricultural SA in deficit! How much do chemical inputs cost in an average farm (approximate%?), How much for energy, "biotics" (antibiotics, vaccines and other biological chemicals ...)

c) Debt = financial charge ! What is the average debt ratio of farms in France and at what interest rate? I thought I heard recently that agricultural credit alone held 50% of agricultural land in France !!! This may be where we should start making choices ...

So in my opinion, we must act on 3 levers ... as effective as a renegotiation to increase base prices

a) Upstream loads (= fertilizer, feed, etc.)
b) Agricultural debt (it will be hard)
c) Short cycles: direct sales (already in progress ...)

So much for launching the debate!
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dirk pitt
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Re: Farm Crisis of milk and meat in France: what works?




by dirk pitt » 26/02/16, 20:09

agree with your example of milk but try to do the same reasoning for pork.
1.3 € / kg for the breeder.
10 to 15 € kg in butchery
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Christophe
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Re: Farm Crisis of milk and meat in France: what works?




by Christophe » 26/02/16, 20:34

Ah ok ... so pork is therefore a problem of excessive margins but 1.3 € / kg is standing we agree?

This therefore joins my very first remark:

the selling price of any product must be set by the seller, not the buyer. It is the basis of all fair trade!
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chatelot16
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Re: Farm Crisis of milk and meat in France: what works?




by chatelot16 » 26/02/16, 21:15

it's simple for industrial manufacturing! we make what we can sell at a profit ... otherwise we choose to make something else

the problem with agriculture is that all crops are slow to set up ... you can't create cows when you can sell milk and make them disappear when you no longer sell them ... same problem for fruit and vegetables: when the products are ready to sell they are perishable, the large distribution is in a strong position! regulatory authority is needed to prevent producers from being crushed

the agriculture market cannot be completely liberal! all the countries which defend their territory have exceptional regimes to defend their agriculture ... I think of Switzerland and Japan, countries for so much very liberal economy but which defend their agriculture
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Re: Farm Crisis of milk and meat in France: what works?




by Christophe » 26/02/16, 21:24

chatelot16 wrote:when the products are ready to sell they are perishable, the large distribution is in a position of strength! regulatory authority is needed to prevent producers from being crushed


And also educate consumers to buy in season !!
sustainable-consumption / calendar-of-seasonal-and-local-fruits and vegetables-t9901.html

And more local too ...
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Re: Farm Crisis of milk and meat in France: what works?




by Ahmed » 26/02/16, 21:28

I agree with the relevant remarks of Chatelot. To this should be added the presence of the meteorological and health hazard which is borne by the farmer without his margins taking this into account.
Christophe, you write:
the selling price of any product must be set by the seller, not the buyer.

There is an inaccuracy in your formulation: whether the price is set by one or the other is not the crucial point. What it is is the balance of power between the group of sellers and that of buyers: if there is a disparity, it will necessarily lead to an injustice to the detriment of the weakest.
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Re: Farm Crisis of milk and meat in France: what works?




by Christophe » 26/02/16, 21:37

Yes Ahmed, a good selling price is a sale price that satisfies as much the seller as the buyer!

But this base price must be fixed by the "seller" in relation to his expenses (with negotiation margins within the acceptable limit) and not by the buyer ... but currently in French agriculture I It seems that it is the buyers (cooperative or large distribution) who have the negotiating margins in hand ... and not the sellers!

As you say, at the expense of smaller ... It's absolutely what happens!
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Re: Farm Crisis of milk and meat in France: what works?




by Ahmed » 26/02/16, 21:51

Exactly, on the one hand you have sellers of machines, products and services who impose their prices, as opposed to buyers who do the same thing (and who establish the invoice that they address to themselves !). In the middle, the farmer who plays the role of redistributor of subsidy and who traditionally had a passive role in (non) negotiation (this is less true in the cereals sector, at least at a certain level); it's up to him to serve as an adjustment variable between these two blocks.
One of the responses of the agricultural world had been (under the influence of active propaganda) the intensification of production, a method which had, for a time, masked the evil. It has now become clear that racing forward cannot be a lasting solution.
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Re: Farm Crisis of milk and meat in France: what works?




by Did67 » 26/02/16, 23:05

One or two more points:

1) Agriculture is a "heavy industry": it takes enormous capital to produce a modest turnover. Between land, buildings, equipment ... It is therefore almost impossible to stop producing, even at a loss. Or to quickly change "product".

2) Even in "organic AB" (I use this neologism since my discussions with janic), the inputs weigh heavily! Remember that "organic AB" = produce without synthetic inputs! Natural inputs are often more expensive, or larger volumes or more frequent treatments are required. Ditto for fuels. I participated in the conversion of the hops farm at the Lycée Agricole d'Obernai to organic. The charges have increased significantly. And the work. Fortunately, the prices are significantly higher too.

3) French agriculture is also a victim of galloping globalization ... It is notable that the "official" leaders (FNSEA and company) were the supporters of the liberal right. They dug the grave of French farmers exposing them to global competition. Meat from the Argentinian pampas, cane sugar from Brazil, milk from cows from Kolkhozes from the former East Germany, etc ... will always be lower than the products from our "family farms ". Or the pork from gigantic German farms which sell pork at cost price by making up for it by the sale of electricity delivered by the manure anaerobic digestion plants (very widespread there; in France, on our project in Obernai , the agricultural managers called us green and braked all four irons; even if today, they try to catch up, realizing the stupidity; there is only one agricultural product whose price is fixed: that of subsidized electricity porduced from photovoltaic roofs or biomethane of agricultural origin).
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Re: Farm Crisis of milk and meat in France: what works?




by Did67 » 26/02/16, 23:18

Ahmed wrote:... the intensification of production, a method which, for a time, masked the evil. It has now become clear that racing forward cannot be a lasting solution.


And the growth in the size of farms also masked !!!

Individually, the farmer still earns just as little. But they are 4 or 5 times less numerous ... This transfer, or "concnetration" made it possible to hide the misery ...

There, the phenomenon goes too quickly. A part of the operating regroupempents was done at the time of the succession. There, we have a whole generation of farmers aged 45 to 55! Too small to be "profitable" ...

Moreover, for a long time, the non-agricultural sectors could absorb unskilled labor ... In the 70s, 40-year-old gariculturists "recycle" themselves as workers. I have thus seen factories set up in the Alsatian countryside where I grew up, shuttle buses set up ... And less a father become a worker-peasant.

All this no longer works.

We are therefore at an impasse.

Tuesday evening, without a debate, I pointed out that it is not just farmers who are suffering! Burn out is becoming widespread. In the factories. In offices.

It's a world that is reaching the limits of the system. Elsewhere, new laws are being discussed that will "liberalize" the labor market. Not to do it is to see porduction going elsewhere ... To do it is to accept pauperization ..; Plague or Cholera ??? It's still a disease. In a globalized economy, we cannot maintain a "European" standard of living and comfort and be competitive with Chinese or Indians (in general; of course, there remain niches which partially contradict this general trend).

So our world is deadlocked. And the farmers are in our world ... The niches remain ...
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