The injection of water destroys the engine ???

[septic]

Hi everybody,

This is the question I am asking myself.

I see a lot of Pantone or other type of assemblies on vehicles that fear much more anyway.

But what about a modern TDI / DCI where the hunt for the slightest water molecule is permanent under penalty of seeing its injection pump and injectors release; and more particularly the famous VW pump injectors.

The injection of water is beneficial for the engine, c ((is proven and put into action on industrial machines designed for.

But is it really adaptable industrially on a vehicle, explaining thereby that no manufacturer has succeeded in offering an equipped vehicle?

The stories of powerful oil lobby are not admissible because they would prohibit the release of hybrid engines which are nevertheless there. Their interest also is not the overconsumption of fuel but the sustainability of long-term supply.

Shouldn't the rapid and predictable destruction of the engine be offset by costly and polluting lubricant injection devices? If even it is possible to do the thing economically.
Not to mention the quality of the water used; tap water is likely to clog the elements with its lime deposits. If you have to use distilled water for example ... hello cost!

If water is injected into the air, it is the turbo and the high cylinders which clink and require additional lubrication by oil injection.
Ha, I forgot the valves which will not last very long either!
Regardless of the water injection mode, I see several engine components each time or it will not go well.

I am there in my reflections on the question and I have the feeling that a lot of people are embarking on assemblies of which they do not measure the long or medium term mechanical impact.

A+

[nonoLeRobot]

There are certainly important points in your explanations.

But do not forget when burning, the hydrogen atoms of gasoline combine with air to create a lot of water (I do not know the proportions but it is not negligible).

It is certainly lime-free and does not pass through the injector but already avoids having to ask too many questions.

[Remundo]

Hello Septicus,

No worries about high pressure fuel injection circuits. The water does not pass through it because it is sucked by the cylinder with the fresh air.

On the other hand, it is not at all excluded that the presence of water in the gases generate accelerated corrosion of the exhaust, or even of the cylinder.

Another great danger, (but in general the water is injected in a sufficiently small quantity), if there is too much water, and / or the engine block is cold, when the piston is raised, the water is totally condenses and blocks the piston because it is almost incompressible. What fart a connecting rod, even the crankshaft pin.

By not injecting too much water, these 2 pitfalls are in principle avoided ...

[Flytox]

Hello Septicus

Shouldn't the rapid and predictable destruction of the engine be offset by costly and polluting lubricant injection devices? If even it is possible to do the thing economically.

I would like to know where you come from that the Gillier Pantomists of all hair destroy their engine .. ??? Do you have something factual to show us?

Not to mention the quality of the water used; tap water is likely to clog the elements with its lime deposits. If you have to use distilled water for example ... hello cost!

The only deposits I have heard of on this forum are found at the bottom of the bubblers or in the reactors but not in the engine.

If water is injected into the air, it is the turbo and the high cylinders which clink and require additional lubrication by oil injection.

The water is in the form of steam and ... cleans the turbo and the steam does not attack the existing oil, I do not see the need to add more, unless you want to increase the power (on Diesel) .

Ha, I forgot the valves which will not last very long either!
Regardless of the water injection mode, I see several engine components each time or it will not go well.

If you tried for yourself, before you say that? There are guys like André who have driven quite a few kilometers and have not reported this kind of problem.

I am there in my reflections on the question and I have the feeling that a lot of people are embarking on assemblies of which they do not measure the long or medium term mechanical impact.

What are you measuring?
A+

[Christophe]

Ha, I forgot the valves which will not last very long either!
Regardless of the water injection mode, I see several engine components each time or it will not go well.

+

On the other hand, it is not at all excluded that the presence of water in the gases generate accelerated corrosion of the exhaust, or even of the cylinder.

Yes yes still running urban legends...As Janco would say, it's all about proportion.

Doping with water = + 20% maximum of water produced by the combustion itself ... therefore ...

We should know what normally goes in and out of a cylinder ... before speculating ...

Another great danger, (but in general the water is injected in a sufficiently small quantity), if there is too much water, and / or the engine block is cold, when the piston is raised, the water is totally condenses and blocks the piston because it is almost incompressible. What fart a connecting rod, even the crankshaft pin.

Obviously a hydraulic clamping is possible but if the system is well done the rest is very limited ... Besides, I think it only happened once (on a tractor that worked on a slope) ...

[jime]

Hello

tap water is likely to clog the elements with its lime deposits. If you have to use distilled water for example ... hello cost!

exact you should not use tap water but collect rainwater in a gutter or a ditch, it's free

I am there in my reflections on the question and I have the feeling that a lot of people are embarking on assemblies of which they do not measure the long or medium term mechanical impact.

when you see that some vehicles of this forum have traveled 20 to 40mkm, we can talk about a medium-term impact and worse if there is not one who launches for the others, we do not advance, after if there is a risk, it is to send water in the engine, but it would take a faulty installation and a stroke of bad luck

on my rover, before mounting a pantone, I changed the cylinder head gasket, all disassembled and cleaned the top engine and the turbo, I changed all the gaskets, you can imagine that I did not do that at a loss, and if I had doubts about the sustainability of the system I would have abstained

[septic]

Hi everybody,

Hmm, for "gutter" water, it is even worse than tap water ... anything but neutral because it picks up a host of particles when it falls. It's well known.
No need for water in various forms to pass through the injection circuit to see damage to the injectors.

AMHA, the only thing that could work, and already works via additives, is the integration of the condensed water molecules from the reservoir. However, the greater the proportion of water, the more it is necessary to increase the amount of additive and more particularly of the essential lubricating elements. More action = more additive = more cost and pollution.

Overall, an engine block, properly lubricated and maintained, must hold 300000Km without significant wear. I was a big rider and I have always done at least 300000km without seeing any particular problem ... even 700000 km with my 250D that I still have.

To say that some have done 30 or 40000 km is not valid because the various corrosions do not yet have time to appear.

I am waiting for the experience of a big driver like me who has done without problem at least 200000Km without worry on a modern diesel that the sophistication makes extremely sensitive to any form of aggression.
Taxi drivers chase waste ... so it should easily be found.

I am retired now and saw the first article on water injection in the Auto Journal a long time ago on an ID19. Since then, apart from very targeted industrial applications, the file has hardly advanced. Manufacturers always stumble on the problems mentioned above and speak in terms of a negative overall balance sheet. Warranty issues regarding the life expectancy of engine components are increasingly present. Outside the contractual warranty period, there is now a form of "usage guarantee" depending on the type of component that takes precedence over it.

I am a bit like this Quebec student who literally got "turned on" in this forum for his very realistic observations. I have long approached the world of automotive equipment manufacturers and the answer has always been the same: we do not know how to do it reliably.
Even with the new environmental imperatives, this file does not seem to be relaunched ... nobody is asking why here? Not to mention the truck engines, a priori easier to monitor.

It would be interesting for an engineer who worked directly on the engines of a large automobile manufacturer to come and detail the state of the art of the studies carried out and the problems encountered.

Understand that this does not take anything away from all those who carry out more or less advanced assemblies based on various water supply processes; but I would not do these experiments on a recent vehicle under penalty of seeing a significant invoice in the long term. The more advanced the engine, the lower the lubrication provided by the fuel. This point must be taken into account.

A+

[jonule]

you play the game and you fall for the trap .....

When in 5 or 10 years everyone will have these vehicles they will be changed without mercy and everyone will say "but why we did not do it before, they were afraid of what?"

for water, it is filtered like your fuel is by a filter, "quite simply".

the injection of water is beneficial for the engine it cleans it, this is also why the anti-pollution controls are OK.

whereas a "recent" engine as you say is fragile and is already clogged with oil ...



but you should say "the injection of water must be controlled at all points" and you will find cracks on this forum ;-)

engineers and experimenters experiment.

[wirbelwind262]

Hello
water doping has been known for a long time by engine engineers, it is briefly cited in "engineering techniques; combustion in diesel engines"....
the knowledge is there, putting it into practice is another story (economic will?) ...
Septicus wrote:
The more advanced the engine is, the lower the lubrication provided by the fuel. This point must be taken into account. '
could you develop, STP?
Good luck !

[jime]

Hello

Hmm, for "gutter" water, it is even worse than tap water ... anything but neutral because it picks up a host of particles when it falls.

what particles are you talking about and what size, in mm or smaller?
I filter my water with a cloth, the meshes are very fine, nothing remains visible to the naked eye after filtration

It's well known.

I am wary of such sentences, the rains are acid, it is well known, I read here that a member of this forum with tested rainwater with a phmeter, the water was neutral, it is well known

to see your skepticism, I think you have to wait until you find a member of the forum which is traveled 300mkm before you embark on such a mountain

but I would not do these experiments on a recent vehicle under penalty of seeing a significant invoice in the long term.

finally since I installed my gp, I can not find any argument to buy a new car full of electronics which will break down before the pantone can do the slightest damage ... especially as my old one car consumes 5L / 100 instead of 7,5L / 100 and above all pollutes much less than before assembly, it competes with new cars, it is more reliable because it is easier to operate, but that automotive companies do not like not .. people who do not consume ..