Newcomer (Pantone and fuel heater)

Water injection in thermal engines and the famous "pantone engine". General informations. Press clippings and videos. Understanding and scientific explanations on the injection of water into engines: ideas for assemblies, studies, physico-chemical analyzes.
User avatar
sam17
Éconologue good!
Éconologue good!
posts: 253
Registration: 14/02/06, 13:57
Location: la rochelle
x 1

Newcomer (Pantone and fuel heater)




by sam17 » 14/02/06, 14:21

Hello,

I am new to this forum.

It's been more than 6 months now that I have been interested in the fuel heater technology that I discovered through an old patent dating from the 20s. This is a patent filed by a manufacturer of gas generators. (the inventor it seems to me) who describes an invention called carburtou. By doing research on the internet I ended up discovering the pantone system.

The pantone system was never in my eyes anything other than a fuel heater but much simpler to implement.

I have since spent many hours reading everything I can find on the subject. this includes the content of this forum of course, M. david's pages, the entire quanthome site for everything related to the Pantone reactor, the content of the econology site (including the report by C. Martz) as well as everything I could find on emule, news from usenet and google.

For a few weeks now I am now in possession of the equipment necessary to carry out brazed welds, I have assembled quite a few mechanical parts capable of being used as part of a pantone assembly. I also worked on simple and inexpensive means to achieve all this, in short I am close to getting started.

I have a project to equip a petrol engine vehicle with a 100% pantone assembly allowing me to run it on oil or fuel. I plan to make a temperature regulated bubbler heated by the exhaust gases in order to have a temperature rise as quickly as possible.
In general, doping with water in itself does not interest me excessively, I prefer to experiment on the side of 100% pantone montages which, although more delicate to implement also seem to me more interesting in terms of results.

I intend to keep you informed of my tests and results as I progress. I recently have a digital camera which will allow me to share with more clarity my montages.

Hello.
0 x
--
Patience is a tree whose root is bitter, and whose fruits are very sweet.
User avatar
jean63
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 2332
Registration: 15/12/05, 08:50
Location: Auvergne
x 4




by jean63 » 14/02/06, 14:36

GREAT;

You know that here you have a very experienced great pantone master called André (Canadian). He is often on the subject "Experiments / Renault 5 super" with PITMIX which is developing its pantone on its R5.

It's really very interesting that you land in this forum.

Welcome among us.

PS: I am not operational, I am the PITMIX tests and others, I have a R2 nevada petrol pantonisable, but I watch with interest the tests of PITMIX which has problems with the admission of "gas" coming from the reactor .
0 x
Other
Pantone engine Researcher
Pantone engine Researcher
posts: 3787
Registration: 17/03/05, 02:35
x 12




by Other » 14/02/06, 17:10

Hello Sam17
Regarding the heating of the fuel either with carburetor or injection, I have been using this method for a long time, even on diesels, there is a small gain especially in winter in very cold weather,
that's all, I mean a small gain, even by heating the intake air, although we quickly limited to respecting a certain temperature depending on the fuel.
Regarding the panton it is far from being a simple exchanger, it is similar to an exchanger, but that another function.
If we wanted to make an exchanger, the reactor inlet would be behind the car and we would all use the length of the pipe, but this happens within 20cm and at high speed.

Now I advise you to make a small assembly 100% panton
on a small engine, (if it is not already done) to master the control of the ratios and the temperatures, that is done in a week by the evenings, less equipped.
you will understand a little more the operating limits, in addition the changes are easy to make.
On a car the easiest (it is doping with water, but if you read all the posts the implementation is difficult for some
Now if you have the patient's energy, you can try yourself on a car. Look at the assembly of Guldy a fairly elaborate injection system, the development is not completed.
Mounting on a generator or a water pump is completely different than on a car, which stops at every corner.

Andre
0 x
User avatar
sam17
Éconologue good!
Éconologue good!
posts: 253
Registration: 14/02/06, 13:57
Location: la rochelle
x 1




by sam17 » 14/02/06, 19:59

Good overall I have a solid experience in mechanical repair even if I continue to consider myself a handyman.

I have at my disposal a generator, equipment downgraded from the army which is based on a car engine (I think it's a DS engine) a little old but completely new (sixty hours on the clock).

I think I'm going to start by equipping this to make my hand and tweak the settings on a constant speed engine.
This should be resolved fairly quickly while allowing me to resolve any (and probably many) unforeseen events.

I may not have been clear about the thermal regulation of the bubbler by the exhaust gases.

It seems to me that the bubbling of oil or fuel only gives good results when it is at a certain temperature, hence the need in my opinion to regulate the latter.

For this I think to equip my bubbler with a coil in which a part of the exhaust gases taken after the reactor will circulate so as not to harm it.

I suspect that if these gases circulate freely constantly through this exchanger I risk quickly bringing my fuel or my water to a boil which, it seems to me, is not at all desirable.

I therefore think of making an electronic assembly with a butterfly valve controlled by a solenoid opening closing the car door based on a thermal sensor placed in the bubbled liquid.

As for reheating the bubbling water, I think it will be enough to place just before the bubbling strainer a small coil embedded in the liquid where it will have time to warm up before being transformed into bubbles .
0 x
--

Patience is a tree whose root is bitter, and whose fruits are very sweet.
User avatar
Cuicui
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 3547
Registration: 26/04/05, 10:14
x 6




by Cuicui » 15/02/06, 10:34

Disadvantage of bubbling fuel: the most volatile parts evaporate first. What remains at the bottom has different characteristics, hence the obligation to change the settings as you go.
Water doping eliminates this drawback.
If you want to pass the vapor + fuel mixture through the Pantone reactor, you can place the reactor between the engine and the intake manifold. But will the surface between the rod and the tube be sufficient to supply the motor?
0 x
User avatar
sam17
Éconologue good!
Éconologue good!
posts: 253
Registration: 14/02/06, 13:57
Location: la rochelle
x 1




by sam17 » 15/02/06, 18:58

hi cuicui,

yes, I did understand that the bubbling of fuel, and mainly gasoline, posed problems due to the fact that the most volatile elements were consumed first. That said, from the moment the fuel is found to be heated to a temperature where all of its components, including the heaviest, evaporate, this should limit this type of problem.

Am I wrong about this?

Regarding the gas passage surface through the reactor it is true that I asked myself the question of knowing if a reactor based on a rod of 14mm in diameter would allow enough gas to pass. As I did not really find a 100% pantone assembly on a car petrol engine where the reactor dimensions were clear, I decided to experiment this for myself.

If someone has experience in the matter (ie apart from simple water doping) this would allow me to save a little time. Anyway I keep looking for info about it all over the forum.
0 x
--

Patience is a tree whose root is bitter, and whose fruits are very sweet.
User avatar
Cuicui
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 3547
Registration: 26/04/05, 10:14
x 6




by Cuicui » 16/02/06, 09:04

Hi sam17
You seem determined to put your hands in the sludge and I take my hat off. I will be happy to hear from you about your achievements, successes or failures.
It will help me get started too. For the moment, I have only accumulated theoretical knowledge.
My thing, it was rather the solar collectors (avatar: roof of my old building, 160 m2 of collectors but badly used).
Having not yet experienced anything concrete in Pantone, I can not be of much help, unlike André (Canadian) who can certainly advise you, because he tried almost everything.
0 x
User avatar
jean63
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 2332
Registration: 15/12/05, 08:50
Location: Auvergne
x 4




by jean63 » 16/02/06, 17:48

sam17 : Arrow:

Hello,

Go see in the subject experiments / Renault super 5. PITMIX the director and André the great experimenter exchanged a lot on all the problems of development of the pantone. : Idea:
0 x
User avatar
jean63
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 2332
Registration: 15/12/05, 08:50
Location: Auvergne
x 4




by jean63 » 16/02/06, 17:50

sam17..excuses, I had not seen that already said above. :?
0 x
User avatar
sam17
Éconologue good!
Éconologue good!
posts: 253
Registration: 14/02/06, 13:57
Location: la rochelle
x 1




by sam17 » 16/02/06, 19:33

-> Jean63
Indeed, I read the entirety of the exchanges with pitmix and I gleaned from it interesting information which comforted me on some of my choices and pushed me to see things differently for other choices. It is really very interesting to see how from a small community the exchange of ideas can get things done.

-> cuicui

Yes, I am firmly determined to attack, that's for sure. After finding the time to do it, because between the creation of my business by still profitable, the time to devote to my dear and the pantone, the nights are likely to be short!
It is true that concerning André he seems to have pushed his experiementations and reflection on the subject far. It's really cool of him to take so much time to help the new kids.




Otherwise I created a new post last night in the forum experiments concerning the group.

The good side of doing things while keeping everyone informed like this is that it pushes me to move forward on the subject because only we always tend to give up.
0 x
--

Patience is a tree whose root is bitter, and whose fruits are very sweet.

 


  • Similar topics
    Replies
    views
    Last message

Go back to "Water injection in heat engines: information and explanations"

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : No registered users and 122 guests