Seeking Gillier pantone system realization tips

[Tumulus]

Hello everyone, first of all I am very happy and excited to meet this forum and all this activity around this fabulous pantone motor process!
It's been a while since I heard about it, but I just recently come to discover the site quanthomme and various pages articles and this forum.

The reason for my coming here is that I would like to make a Gillier pantone system on my old Land rover 2,5 L Tdi, which pollutes and consumes a lot. It's a 1991 dating engine, and I think it might be possible to build a system successfully.

So I studied at length the various pages, went through this forum up and down, sometimes with a little trouble, not being very used to forums, which may explain why some gray areas persist for me, mainly at the bubbler level.

I turn to a bubbler heated by the cooling system, constant level system flush or wiper pump, but I remain puzzled when venting the bubbler. I think I did not fully understand how the venting should work, I saw posts talking about creating a venturi depression, others talking about recovering the exhaust gases to blow up on some montages with photos I even feel that the vent is connected to nothing at all? some talk about a hose wrapped around the muffler to send hot air .. but where does this pipe go from? emptiness? connected to the pot downstream of the reactor?

I even thought of a small fan 12v system to pulse the air in the bubbler, but I remain a little lost: How should the bubbling work? must we push the air? Is it sucked by the creation of steam in the bubbler? I confess I do not get to clear my brain, even after reading the pages of Mr. David, or other posts about the ideal bubbler .. No doubt I missed an important notion ..

So thank you in advance if you can enlighten me a little on it!

Tumulus

[Flytox]

Hello Tumulus, Welcome to the club.

... which may explain why some shadows persist for me, mainly at the bubbler level.

I turn to a bubbler heated by the cooling system, constant level system flush or wiper pump, but I remain puzzled when venting the bubbler.

If the bubbler is not too big (> 2 liters?) And relatively well insulated, heating by cooling liquid is a solution that works.

For the flush system, I have some doubts, it is not done to be shaken (acceleration, braking, turning ...). The system with wiper pump, it can work. Finally, the water level in the bubbler is not critical unless overfilled

For the vent that makes you puzzled. There are many different solutions that work (more or less well, easily). There may not be one, there may be one, the bubbler can be sucked or blown, by air or exhaust ..... Anyway, out of the Gillier Pantone and level Admission you will find air, in some cases a little exhaust gas, water vapor and water droplets (all this world in varying quantities and unidentified).

Whether the mix is ​​done upstream or downstream, at the limit we do not care, the key is to find the setting for it to work.
Unfortunately, this does not mean that all solutions are equivalent ....

I think I did not fully understand how the venting should work, I saw posts talking about creating a venturi depression, others talking about recovering the exhaust gases to blow up on some montages with photos I even feel that the vent is connected to nothing at all? some talk about a hose wrapped around the muffler to send hot air .. but where does this pipe go from? emptiness? connected to the pot downstream of the reactor?

It would seem that the venturi system makes it possible to help the production of "good" steam by putting the reactor in depression. The presence of exhaust gas can have other justifications, large proportion of water vapor already present, high temperature, less oxygen, acidification of the water in the bubbler etc ... the disadvantage, it is that it dirty the whole circuit a bit with soot.

The air, with or without a proportion of exhaust gas, admitted by the bubbler or by the Instant Steam Generator or the reactor (a combination thereof), can be cold, warm, hot .... one of the parameters of the focus.

I even thought of a small fan 12v system to jog the air into the bubbler,

This is one of the solutions I am considering for my next edit. Can be a solution to produce "good" steam at low speed when the vacuum is too low to suck into the bubbler.

Clearly, the field of investigation is very extensive and many solutions .... and the justice of the peace, it is the consumption.

[Tumulus]

Hi Flytox, thank you very much for your answer which starts to enlighten me a little. So I see as I suspected a little that there are several air intake solutions in the bubbler .. Did you test some more advantageous than others?

You also say that the bubbler should not be too big for the good heating by cooling circuit, the 2 liters of which you speak are the total volume of the bubbler not to be exceeded, or only the volume of the third of water of the bubbler? what would make a bubbler with a total volume of about 4-5 liters, which I have planned for now?

Finally, about the venturi, it must be placed upstream of the bubbler on the air intake of it, or upstream of the reactor between the latter and the bubbler? I have not quite grasped or it is the most beneficial to create depression ..!

As you say I think I will move towards the windshield wiper system .. In fact I travel very far with this vehicle, hence my desire to climb a constant level .. Finally I still have a small question for information, do you know what gives a motor equipped Gillier pantone over time? I mean 2 or 3, 100, or more, or after 000 XNUMX terminals? or even more?
I do not see a priori how this system could damage shirts or segments in the cylinders, given the pressures or explosions they already support, but do we ever know ..!

Ah yes I forgot, on turbo diesel engine, the system must be connected to the air intake before the turbo, is that it?

Thanks again for your clarification, and your quick answer!

[Flytox]

... I suspected a little that there are several air intake solutions in the bubbler .. Did you test some more advantageous than others?

For the bubblers, I have not tested much, for my part, I used systems closer to the GVI, I made you a synthesis of the experiences reported by other Pantomists. The one who has tried a mountain of things is André.

You also say that the bubbler should not be too big for the good heating by cooling circuit, the 2 liters of which you speak are the total volume of the bubbler not to be exceeded, or only the volume of the third of water of the bubbler? what would make a bubbler with a total volume of about 4-5 liters, which I have planned for now?

This is the total water + air volume. When this volume is too large it becomes unheatable (by heating with Coil of Cooling Liquid), if the temperature of the water in the bubbler does not exceed 60 or 65 ° the steam generation is insignificant.

Finally, about the venturi, it must be placed upstream of the bubbler on the air intake of it, or upstream of the reactor between the latter and the bubbler? I have not quite grasped or it is the most beneficial to create depression ..!

It "must" create the depression with the venturi upstream of the reactor which is itself upstream of the bubbler. If you put the vacuum on the bubbler, it will reverse the flow and you no longer go through the reactor.

Finally I have a small question for information, do you know what gives a motor equipped Gillier pantone over time? I mean 2 or 3, 100, or more, or after 000 XNUMX terminals? or even more?
I do not see a priori how this system could damage shirts or segments in the cylinders, given the pressures or explosions they already support, but do we ever know ..!

For my part I have to exceed the 15000 km without worries, André had to exceed the (50000 Km?). If your system never sends a sip of water at once to the engine, there is no danger. It is also not the fleet keeper when it is cold!
In normal use, the engine gets cleaned, which AMHA improves the service life.

Ah yes I forgot, on turbo diesel engine, the system must be connected to the air intake before the turbo, is that it?

Indeed, it is much easier before the turbo than after. Watch out for the pressure that can play tricks .... inflate the bubbler etc ..... Look on the site there are several examples of montages made with a turbo.
A+

[Tumulus]

Ok, hello Flytox, thank you very much for your valuable advice!

If I can still abuse a bit of your kindness and your knowledge, I think I will try a system with adjustable speed fan to send a little pre-heated air near the pot in the bubbler ..
A venturi before the reactor too.

But I ask myself one last question concerning the valves, I see on several examples, plans etc, valves at different places of the circuit .. What do you say? must we put one after the reactor, before entering the admission to not send a fleet in the engine still cold? or just to adjust a flow? I tell myself that it is probably better to put it at the outlet of the bubbler this valve, to prevent water vapor droplets piling in the pipe? Do you use valves? and at which places of the circuit? Or is it not necessary at all?

Thank you again for your valuable advice!

[gildas]

It "must" create the depression with the venturi upstream of the reactor which is itself upstream of the bubbler. If you put the vacuum on the bubbler, it will reverse the flow and you no longer go through the reactor.

Uh .. I would say that it is rather downstream of the reactor that the venturi must be placed, the bubbler being the "mount", the exhaust gases the "valley"

[Flytox]

But I ask myself one last question concerning the valves, I see on several examples, plans etc, valves at different places of the circuit .. What do you say? must we put one after the reactor, before entering the admission to not send a fleet in the engine still cold? or just to adjust a flow? I tell myself that it is probably better to put it at the outlet of the bubbler this valve, to prevent water vapor droplets piling in the pipe? Do you use valves? and at which places of the circuit? Or is it not necessary at all?

Valves are essential for some tests, but do not put anywhere else either. (I guess it's useless from the reactor outlet to the intake). What must be well cogit is that we can add them easily without cutting more than necessary remount ... etc ... When you have a montage with some flexible hoses it's easier.

Often the valve can be advantageously replaced by a restriction which makes a "nozzle" (instead of a quarter turn which does not open at all gradually and without mark for the passage section, it is better to have a small piece of pipe than you insert in the rubber hose and that makes a known / wanted restriction).

AMHA controlled valves or restrictions essential:
- On the water supply circuit of the bubbler or GVI.
- Drain when it has a low point (for winters to avoid breaks by frost)
- On the air flow entering the bubbler or GVI supply.
- Between the bubbler or GVI and the reactor (jet, felt etc.)

To avoid the accumulation of water in the pipes, it is necessary to cogitate the slopes of all the pipes, to avoid all the unnecessary low points. It also requires a minimum of gas flow (air + steam + possibly exhaust), if it blows, there is no significant accumulation (dangerous). It does not require big cooling either (long metal pipe of small diameter cooled by drafts and not insulated).

[Flytox]

It "must" create the depression with the venturi upstream of the reactor which is itself upstream of the bubbler. If you put the vacuum on the bubbler, it will reverse the flow and you no longer go through the reactor.

Uh .. I would say that it is rather downstream of the reactor that the venturi must be placed, the bubbler being the "mount", the exhaust gases the "valley"

Ouuupsss !! Indeed, upstream and downstream is rather depending on the direction of flow. Thank you gildas there is at least one that follows

Let us take again: upstream the air enters the bubbler, continues in the reactor and continues in the venturi to throw itself downstream in the duct of admission. The venturi is in no way connected directly to the bubbler.

[Tumulus]

Thank you very much! it's really nice to have given me all these tips, I think I just have to start!

one last thing, after reading many things I think to realize a reactor of more or less 150 mm long with a rod of diameter approximately 13 to 15 mm, and thus with a space of 1 mm compared to the tube which will make so roughly between 15 and 17 mm diameter .. The engine is 2,5 turbo diesel. According to you, no mistake in these figures?

Thank you again for having illuminated my shadows and for this precious help!

[Flytox]

It must be fine, it is "classic" odds. Either way, sooner or later there is always something to change to optimize operation. The thing that works 100% the first time, I don't really believe it!
Good mechanics!