Some bulk food for thought ...

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The Passing
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Some bulk food for thought ...




by The Passing » 02/02/06, 19:49

Okay, it's candid and somewhat provocative, but lo and behold:

1. The human species will always pollute as long as it includes as many individuals as it does today and as it develops.

2. Oil (just like gas) must have existed, a long time ago, in another form than that we know today, namely: plants, trees, living organisms, so all this carbon was already in the natural cycle of the planet, right? So is it really polluting to reinject it into the cycle by burning it?

3. Heating with wood, even if it seems ecological at first glance, cannot be used by everyone, I have the impression that the forests could not be renewed quickly enough (we burn a tree that has put 50 years to grow in less than two days!).

4. Are renewable energies sufficient to cover most of the needs linked to human activity?

5. I may be wrong, but all these pollution concerns are above all an embarrassment for .... the human species itself, the planet would "turn" very well without humans, right?

6. And finally, is it not somewhere "fashionable" to be green, which serves as a little engine for the economic growth dear to our policies?

Do not type please .... : Mrgreen:
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nonoLeRobot
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by nonoLeRobot » 02/02/06, 20:42

Yes you are funny Benoit :D

1 - Well yes but men must live, after all they are animals like the others. Only they should be careful not to saw the branch on which he sits.


2 - The I do not agree or it will make a debate on the definition of the word pollute and I do not care about the definitions I only take care of the concrete. And the reason why we do not want to "pollute" reject CO2 or other gas is just so that in the future we are in a livable environment and even pleasant for men, that is to say us and our children and also for animals if possible. But whether it is a "natural" or "organic" process or whatever, that looks nice, I don't care.

3 - Heating with wood allows the maintenance of the drills or in any case otherwise the rotten wood by rejecting CO2 or in monster fires or it is burned for nothing (even if it is a natural phenomenon). Anyway in France we are lucky to still have a lot of margin on the drill side. Attention, I am talking about maintaining the drills, not shaving them white. You can still easily make bearings to let the drill grow back.

4 - Hence the interest in finding the means to consume less.

5 - See my 1) I am 100% acc with you, but protecting the human species seems to me as praiseworthy as any other species. So I don't see how it changes.
And I agree with you, that the planet will do very well without us (apart from nuclear bombs which could definitively destroy life on earth) life will not stop because of a rise in temperature but could be very disturbing as during the last mass extinctions. "Natural" process we would say. But I don't care if it's natural or not, people suffer that's what matters or not right?

6 - Yes now it is becoming a bit fashionable and that is what is a little reassuring, it is a bit of a fashion replacement for having a beautiful car ... ;-)


It's cool, I feel it will stir a little :D you troll ;-).
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by rpsantina » 02/02/06, 20:48

To answer you:

Goethe: "From this day and this place dates a new epoch in the history of the world and you will be able to say: I was there"

Kennedy: "Do not ask yourself what your country can do for you. Ask yourself what you can do for it" Presidential Inauguration Speech

and a last one for the road

Vespassien: "Money has no smell",

apparently, it is priceless either, econologically speaking ...
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by Christine » 02/02/06, 21:07

No, do not type. Why?
my answers, personal and which only bind me:

1) Pollution, and especially the quantity of pollution depends on the way of life and not on the number of humans on earth.

2) They did indeed exist, but on a land whose conditions were all different and not conducive to life as it exists today.

3) For wood, I don't know but in any case we must diversify the sources.

4) You have to make sure that it does. And that is why we must start now and not wait until it is too late.

5) Yes and no. If we disappeared, it would have a strong impact on the other living "forms", which should find a new balance ... I think that certain species would disappear, others would be transformed etc.
But you have to be lucid: behind the sloggans "let's save the planet" or "the earth as a heritage" you have to hear "we have the balls to disappear, let's save our skin ... TO US.".
We must understand and admit that we are part of an ecosystem just like everything that exists on this planet and that we must preserve its balance. (I would develop another day because it may be long).

6) yes and no.
- there is certainly a fashion effect but "awareness" is still advancing.
- behind "mode" there is always "consumption". But precisely, as the fashion effect and its superficiality go away, what remains is anchored more deeply.

sorry, i'm really not clear, i'd do better next time : Oops: .
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Re: Some loose thinking ...




by Woodcutter » 02/02/06, 22:15

Benoit- wrote:[..] 1. The human species will always pollute as long as it has as many individuals as it does today and as it develops.
Well done ! Finally someone who understood and who says it!
Yes, there are TOO MANY! :| And as we are harassed all the time that the norm is the growth, well we find it normal that the population increases all the time and that we always consume more per capita ...
Thank you, I feel less alone ... Sometimes I feel like I am taken for an AND when I say that ... :?

Benoit- wrote:2. Oil (just like gas) must have existed, a long time ago, in another form than that we know today, namely: plants, trees, living organisms, so all this carbon was already in the natural cycle of the planet, right? So is it really polluting to reinject it into the cycle by burning it?
We come back to the definition of a pollutant ... (I read this definition on Olio but I can't find it anymore ...). Basically, a pollutant is pollutant only because the quantities (or rates) involved have an influence on an equilibrium.
At the moment, CO2 is very annoying for us and for all living beings who are too specialized to evolve quickly, but the "planet" ecosystem does not care a bit ...
Indeed, this carbon today fossil existed in organic form at other times and with other climates (and without the man) ...
The biggest concern comes from its speed of reincorporation into the global terrestrial carbon cycle, which is much too fast to allow time for natural evolution to operate and could be akin to certain catastrophic episodes in the history of our planet. (very active volcanism in particular).

Benoit- wrote:3. Heating with wood, even if it seems ecological at first glance, cannot be used by everyone, I have the impression that the forests could not be renewed quickly enough (we burn a tree that has put 50 years to grow in less than two days!).
A forest is like any surface covered with vegetation: photosynthesis allows a certain production of annual biomass. As long as the management of a whole plant is taking into account this aspect, it is not embarrassing to consume this production of biomass (even if we consume the biomass of several years at once) and it is a good way to recover solar energy that is otherwise lost ...

Benoit- wrote:4. Are renewable energies sufficient to cover most of the needs linked to human activity?
I think Jancovici answered that, it seems to me ...
There are surely people who have made these calculations. I seem to have read that not.

Benoit- wrote:5. I may be wrong, but all these pollution concerns are above all an embarrassment for .... the human species itself, the planet would "turn" very well without humans, right?
As said above, a discomfort for the human species because it is obviously the first species to suffer, but also for all the so-called "higher" organisms, which have developed by taking advantage of the relative stability of their environment . Bacteria do not care royally!

Benoit- wrote:6. And finally, is it not somewhere "fashionable" to be green, which serves as a little engine for the economic growth dear to our policies?
Well then we do not have the same definition of "green" ... And it would be a very little followed fashion, given the slow evolution of mentalities in the face of daily gestures so simple ... :frown:
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by Woodcutter » 02/02/06, 22:19

Christine, you have a MP ...
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The Passing
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Re: Some loose thinking ...




by The Passing » 05/02/06, 10:45

Woodcutter wrote:
[...]

Benoit- wrote:3. Heating with wood, even if it seems ecological at first glance, cannot be used by everyone, I have the impression that the forests could not be renewed quickly enough (we burn a tree that has put 50 years to grow in less than two days!).
A forest is like any surface covered with vegetation: photosynthesis allows a certain production of annual biomass. As long as the management of a whole plant is taking into account this aspect, it is not embarrassing to consume this production of biomass (even if we consume the biomass of several years at once) and it's a good way to recover solar energy that is otherwise lost ...

[...]



Ahh, that's very fair, I had not yet seen the wood in this aspect, thank you.
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by freddau » 05/02/06, 12:03

Oxygen can also become a pollutant if there is too much .......

Infact if you think about it a little more, everything comes from the sun, or almost .......
the wind, the waves, the gulf stream, the tides (moon and sun not ??), the clouds, the rivers etc ........ even the oil, the coal which came from plants etc ...

Do not tell me that I am intelligent, I had read an article which put me on the way ....

Everything can be except nuclear but hey it refers to it all the same.
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by Former Oceano » 05/02/06, 20:33

Thank you Freddau, I finally understood!

This is why we do ITER!

Once we put the sun in a bottle, we can get out:

the wind
de l'eau
waves
trees
doves
rabbits
dolls in bikini and pompom on the buttocks ...
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by gegyx » 05/02/06, 21:36

No! Reversible, there will only be bikinis ... 8)
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