Hello.
Speaking of ideal intake air temperature, I found these curves (Honda F1 of 1988) where we see that the ideal air temperature is 70 ° and that of fuel 80 ° C for the optimum consumption ...
I'm going to warm up the gas and the air on the bike to see! Well it does not represent big differences (2% and 4% less consumption.)
Michel
[Img][img] http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/9147/courbestempraturesairessence2o.jpg [/ img][/ Img]
Variation of power and specific consumption
Hello PITMIX.
Yes and finally it was important enough in racing (F1) for them to take it into account to optimize the refueling ... 80 ° C for fuel we are often far from it especially on motorbikes where it is sometimes necessary to put electric heaters to that the carbs do not freeze ... I do not have a plane but it is also an important parameter in altitude, vital even!
(PITMIX we are not very far we will have to see each other between 2 blowtorches or during a test ...)
Michel
Yes and finally it was important enough in racing (F1) for them to take it into account to optimize the refueling ... 80 ° C for fuel we are often far from it especially on motorbikes where it is sometimes necessary to put electric heaters to that the carbs do not freeze ... I do not have a plane but it is also an important parameter in altitude, vital even!
(PITMIX we are not very far we will have to see each other between 2 blowtorches or during a test ...)
Michel
0 x
-
The Passing
- x 17
Normal because:
hot air at the intake => less dense air for the same intake volume => the mass air flow meter perceives less air => the computer therefore injects less fuel => consumption and power are therefore reduced on an engine atmospheric.
Regulation of injection by the exhaust oxygen sensor will also correct the amount of fuel injected.
I good?
hot air at the intake => less dense air for the same intake volume => the mass air flow meter perceives less air => the computer therefore injects less fuel => consumption and power are therefore reduced on an engine atmospheric.
Regulation of injection by the exhaust oxygen sensor will also correct the amount of fuel injected.
I good?
0 x
Hello benoit
You're all good that's exactly what happens on a motor control electronic,
For power loss, it is only at maximum power or if the same throttle opening is kept (petrol engine)
In reality draw hot air at 50% of the opening of the butterfly, just open a little more and we have the same amount of air as if it were cold, the power becomes identical
The only difference between very cold air and hot air is that the vaporization of gasoline is better, and the temperature at the end of compression is higher, therefore faster combustion
When I use the heat continuously on an airplane in very cold we see a slight increase in the temperature of the cylinder heads is from 325 F to 360F but it is largely in the parameters of the engine.
When the mixture is well adjusted for this hot air there is a fuel economy (in our case it is not the economy, which interests us but the autonomy, in the remote corners the fuel is scarce, it is always necessary think back and get around the weather)
Andre
You're all good that's exactly what happens on a motor control electronic,
For power loss, it is only at maximum power or if the same throttle opening is kept (petrol engine)
In reality draw hot air at 50% of the opening of the butterfly, just open a little more and we have the same amount of air as if it were cold, the power becomes identical
The only difference between very cold air and hot air is that the vaporization of gasoline is better, and the temperature at the end of compression is higher, therefore faster combustion
When I use the heat continuously on an airplane in very cold we see a slight increase in the temperature of the cylinder heads is from 325 F to 360F but it is largely in the parameters of the engine.
When the mixture is well adjusted for this hot air there is a fuel economy (in our case it is not the economy, which interests us but the autonomy, in the remote corners the fuel is scarce, it is always necessary think back and get around the weather)
Andre
0 x
Hi everybody.
Yes the calculator will adjust according to the air temperature (CTN probe for example) and the flow (flow meter, vacuum or butterfly opening) etc, but in addition what seems interesting to me is that they regulated (they must always do this) the air and fuel temperature (and of course the richness 1,02 close to the ideal stoichiometric ratio) for optimal fuel consumption during the race. For qualification settings R = 1,23; T air = 40 ° C.
On a motorbike (on the road) we are a bit far from it, it is true that the manufacturers hardly care about consumption.
Michel
Yes the calculator will adjust according to the air temperature (CTN probe for example) and the flow (flow meter, vacuum or butterfly opening) etc, but in addition what seems interesting to me is that they regulated (they must always do this) the air and fuel temperature (and of course the richness 1,02 close to the ideal stoichiometric ratio) for optimal fuel consumption during the race. For qualification settings R = 1,23; T air = 40 ° C.
On a motorbike (on the road) we are a bit far from it, it is true that the manufacturers hardly care about consumption.
Michel
0 x
Hello Michel
On my Buick Parque Avenue 3,8litres multipoint, I have no pants (it's my wife's vehicle) I just installed a turbulator behind the butterfly and I made a copper coil
on the hose that goes to the radiator, The biggest gain on consumption is the turbulator that I tested at length a few years later I added the fuel heating
and the gain and 0,5 liters per 100 for the fuel heater,
With turbulator 8,54 liters at 100
With turbocharger and gasoline heater 7,86 liters at 100
(It's a big vehicle of the size and mass of a Cadillac)
On this vehicle I do not have air heating, but with the information you have just provided I will test.
As we have always been told, do not heat the air for a multipoint injection system, I will check this story.
By the way do you know the ratio of bridges on Mercedes?
a 4 cylinder the same chasi as the 5 cylinder is the bridge bigger? (for the panton to work better, I had bigger tires, but I am limited, so that it does not rub, so I think of looking for another differrential to couple the engine. Send me E-mail if you have any information.
Andre
On my Buick Parque Avenue 3,8litres multipoint, I have no pants (it's my wife's vehicle) I just installed a turbulator behind the butterfly and I made a copper coil
on the hose that goes to the radiator, The biggest gain on consumption is the turbulator that I tested at length a few years later I added the fuel heating
and the gain and 0,5 liters per 100 for the fuel heater,
With turbulator 8,54 liters at 100
With turbocharger and gasoline heater 7,86 liters at 100
(It's a big vehicle of the size and mass of a Cadillac)
On this vehicle I do not have air heating, but with the information you have just provided I will test.
As we have always been told, do not heat the air for a multipoint injection system, I will check this story.
By the way do you know the ratio of bridges on Mercedes?
a 4 cylinder the same chasi as the 5 cylinder is the bridge bigger? (for the panton to work better, I had bigger tires, but I am limited, so that it does not rub, so I think of looking for another differrential to couple the engine. Send me E-mail if you have any information.
Andre
0 x
Hello André
If I am not mistaken it is about 8% less by heating the fuel it is more than the curve, but it is true that it was a very different engine from F1 turbo of 620CV for 1500cc (200g / Cv / h) and 1000CV in qualification! So much the better if it is more efficient on a tourism engine. For air, there are often systems that heat the intake air, right?
I am looking for bridge reports.
(Site for W123 http://www.mercedesw123.info/w-123/index.php?op=edito
Michel
If I am not mistaken it is about 8% less by heating the fuel it is more than the curve, but it is true that it was a very different engine from F1 turbo of 620CV for 1500cc (200g / Cv / h) and 1000CV in qualification! So much the better if it is more efficient on a tourism engine. For air, there are often systems that heat the intake air, right?
I am looking for bridge reports.
(Site for W123 http://www.mercedesw123.info/w-123/index.php?op=edito
Michel
0 x
Hello
I'm back!
The ideal must be the compromise between quantity of air and vaporization of gasoline.
Let 70 and 80 ° (air and gasoline).
air too hot: the piston pert of its energy to suck the air and it is missing because the air
hot takes up space.
(He can not inject enough gasoline to produce a big explosion).
some of the energy of this small explosion will be lost to suck some hot air.
air too cold: the air filling is optimal but the gasoline is poorly vaporized and burns badly.
some of this essence even comes out unbrealed.
I have a question:
and diesel?
ideal temperature of the air?
since there is no need to vaporize gasoline in this air.
and in direct fuel injection?
Idem
tryf
I'm back!
The ideal must be the compromise between quantity of air and vaporization of gasoline.
Let 70 and 80 ° (air and gasoline).
air too hot: the piston pert of its energy to suck the air and it is missing because the air
hot takes up space.
(He can not inject enough gasoline to produce a big explosion).
some of the energy of this small explosion will be lost to suck some hot air.
air too cold: the air filling is optimal but the gasoline is poorly vaporized and burns badly.
some of this essence even comes out unbrealed.
I have a question:
and diesel?
ideal temperature of the air?
since there is no need to vaporize gasoline in this air.
and in direct fuel injection?
Idem
tryf
0 x
Hello,
In a diesel engine compression has rates between 18 and 21
if the cylyndre fills up well (normally no restriction and low speed) the temperature of the air at the end of compression is around 600c which is necessary to have a combustion of this heavy product.
Although the air layer in the vicinity of the cylinder head and the piston is not at this temperature. the combustion in an engine is something complex, and currently there are many things which are still hypothetical, even if one is able to walk on the moon!
This increase in temperature at the time of compression
absorbs energy in the motor cycle and which says heat = transfer in the walls of the motor and therefore loss.
If a petrol engine could run at the same compression ratio as a diesel engine, the efficiency of the petrol engine would be higher.
In direct injection we can afford to build engines that work with a higher compression ratio
When injecting gasoline during the compression suction cycle, the evaporation of the gasoline drops lowers the temperature of the mixture, so we can compress it more, without too high its temperature at the end of compression risk of auto ignition (when the engine fills up well)
It is necessary to make the difference between temperature a, motor input and temperature at the end of compression
Water mist injection on certain engines with high compression ratios has the same effect as direct injection on the temperature of the mixture. On a low compression engine this makes no change, no more than running on high octane fuel.
Andre
In a diesel engine compression has rates between 18 and 21
if the cylyndre fills up well (normally no restriction and low speed) the temperature of the air at the end of compression is around 600c which is necessary to have a combustion of this heavy product.
Although the air layer in the vicinity of the cylinder head and the piston is not at this temperature. the combustion in an engine is something complex, and currently there are many things which are still hypothetical, even if one is able to walk on the moon!
This increase in temperature at the time of compression
absorbs energy in the motor cycle and which says heat = transfer in the walls of the motor and therefore loss.
If a petrol engine could run at the same compression ratio as a diesel engine, the efficiency of the petrol engine would be higher.
In direct injection we can afford to build engines that work with a higher compression ratio
When injecting gasoline during the compression suction cycle, the evaporation of the gasoline drops lowers the temperature of the mixture, so we can compress it more, without too high its temperature at the end of compression risk of auto ignition (when the engine fills up well)
It is necessary to make the difference between temperature a, motor input and temperature at the end of compression
Water mist injection on certain engines with high compression ratios has the same effect as direct injection on the temperature of the mixture. On a low compression engine this makes no change, no more than running on high octane fuel.
Andre
0 x
Go back to "Water injection in heat engines: information and explanations"
Who is online ?
Users browsing this forum : No registered users and 90 guests