credible explanations of doping in the water! IMPORTANT!!

Water injection in thermal engines and the famous "pantone engine". General informations. Press clippings and videos. Understanding and scientific explanations on the injection of water into engines: ideas for assemblies, studies, physico-chemical analyzes.
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by Christophe » 26/09/08, 11:30

cktm wrote:And your friend Langlois P from Canada, he is the cousin of Langloi G from Canada from voitureh2O !! (A new scam, roll in the water)


Clever you advertise it ... I don't want to see this site pronounced on forums!

So look at the site of "my" Langlois you will see that the level has nothing to do ...

I hope ... don't get it wrong :|
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by jime » 26/09/08, 12:17

Not on associating Scam and naninana car, it comes out on google by typing these two keywords? A future client may be discouraged after consulting this forum

that's what i did before buying my retrok2000 (it's not the original name, it's a word game with an old american series for those who don't know), i hadn't found a inconclusive answer or test

while now try to type retrok2000 and result on google, my subject comes up at the top of the answer, we can not say that I make them positive
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by camel1 » 29/09/08, 00:37

Hi Captain!

I just read your speech only now : Oops: :

Capt_Maloche wrote:Remember that these (important) results are sensitive on "old" vehicles equipped with naturally aspirated engines.

and that nobody has achieved such results on HDI, DCI and equivalent engines, except 5 to 10% with the addition of SP95 in the GO

1200Kg vehicles today consume less than 5L / 100

the last IV spaces of 1800KG with their wind resistance are around 7,5L / 100

The palm seems to return to PSA engines

and I therefore bring a formal denial to what you are announcing, it comes from an email addressed to me by Alexandre Grégoire, the author of the famous retrofitage of Vitry sur Ornes, with whom I cooperated for the establishment of the GV, with the results we know:

... In terms of results, I'm still around 60
% of depollution and 20 to 30% for consumption,
better being the C15 with 31% for a vehicle of
So town hall which only makes short trips,
others from the town hall are at 20% including a plateau DCI
but the rooms are not isolated and I think
we would gain a little by slightly enlarging the
GV. But it's already not bad.


We are talking about a decrease of 20% on a DCI, and I could even add the words that Christophe Chausse (COPRA) told me about the results of the exhaust gas control of a DC + G + retrofitted in a dealer mechanic equipped with a gas analyzer giving the contents of C0, C02, Nox, O2, particles (in ppm), without, then with steam injection ...
In the first case, the different rates were "in the nails", the engine was running "normally".

When the water supply was turned on, the CO and particulate matter numbers dropped dramatically, so much so that the mechanic thought his probes were messing around!

But they did not mess around, the figures are sometimes stubborn!

But it is true that I often hear this remark which would concern recent vehicles, at high pressure ... on which the gains would be quite low.

During our visit to the test bench at Carnot, with the mercy to Didier, we had an edifying discussion with one of the mechanical teachers, who explained to us that the lowest pollution from recent dci / hdi and other clones was a big lie , because because of a finer spray, by high pressure, we therefore produced ... finer particles, almost invisible in the opacimetry test of technical control centers, but worst for health, because, of a size of the order of magnitude of the nanometer. They are stuck in the pulmonary alveoli, in a lasting way, and cause a resurgence of respiratory diseases, allergies and cancers ...

When we see the pollution of cities and major traffic corridors, and the number of people around us with these "new diseases", and add to that the proliferation of these new engines, we understand how these results are essential!

We are bringing here and now a "science-less technology", but which irrefutably provides the solution to this serious immediate problem of pollution ...

I quoted a private message from Alexandre, who was committed to giving me his feedback. In his last email, he told me that he would soon create a post on econology concerning his results, but time is passing, and he still hasn't had time to publish them (I know he's very busy! )

I think suddenly make a little update on the GV by a remarkable tip that he slipped me to deal with his mood swings.
Coming soon in the wiki, let's say within a month, I myself am very busy these days, with G ++ in particular ...

A ++

Michel
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by Christophe » 29/09/08, 11:03

Glad to read you camel1, a federation of the various actors of the Gillier Pantone (in all these forms) could only be beneficial to "its cause" ...

Together we are stronger!

Today I am applying for the GP on behalf of all the members of the forum to Google 10 ^ 100: https://www.econologie.com/forums/google-se- ... t6234.html
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by Capt_Maloche » 24/10/08, 16:00

camel1 wrote:Hi Captain!

I just read your speech only now : Oops: :


and I therefore bring a formal denial to what you are announcing, it comes from an email addressed to me by Alexandre Grégoire, the author of the famous retrofitage of Vitry sur Ornes, with whom I cooperated for the establishment of the GV, with the results we know:

We are talking about a decrease of 20% on a DCI, and I could even add the words that Christophe Chausse (COPRA) told me about the results of the exhaust gas control of a DC + G + retrofitted in a dealer mechanic equipped with a gas analyzer giving the contents of C0, C02, Nox, O2, particles (in ppm), without, then with steam injection ...

Michel


Hello, I just read your reply late

This is the first test on HDI that is reported to me, and you confirm that the injection of water vapor has the same effect as on my modified burner :D , it's great ! what are manufacturers waiting for? Proof of this is that the recirculation of water from combustion would have the same effect (EGR valve managed with a computer + probe)

for particles, water vapor is a good solution, but it would be best to inject the fuel in the gaseous state.
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by Flytox » 12/12/09, 20:53

Bonjour à tous

Attached is a Power point on a CEA / INPG thesis ... which talks about a water vapor explosion! : Shock:

The study conditions are not those of a Pantone, but in nuclear : Cheesy: ..... But, but but ... we talk about an explosion of vapor, the diameter of the water droplets, pressure variation, temperature variation, contact with a liquid, pressure increase in milisecond (which would correspond to an engine time) ..... In short, so many things that call into question whether we can extrapolate these explanations for a Gillier Pantone.

https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... GIbd0c.ppt
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by Remundo » 13/12/09, 10:42

Thank you Flytox for this document,

Beware of the term "explosion" which in the strict sense means a very intense and sudden expansion of matter.

So in the document, "explosion" does not refer to any chemical reaction between water and fuel... but simply by spraying + spraying water ...

This thesis brings something to the mechanisms of liquid water fragmentation in contact with a very hot medium (problematic of nuclear reactors in the event of an "incident").

But in the Gillier Pantone, almost all the water is already vaporized at the time of admission ...

Thus, for our problem, it lacks the chemical aspect, and more precisely of chemical kinetics. What becomes of molecule water in contact with the flame, HO- H + ionization or HO * H * radicalization, and in this case, what effects on the decomposition of the hydrocarbon ...

Vast questions. : Idea:
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by Flytox » 13/12/09, 13:15

Remundo wrote:Beware of the term "explosion" which in the strict sense means a very intense and sudden expansion of matter.

So in the document, "explosion" does not refer to any chemical reaction between water and fuel... but simply by spraying + spraying water ...

+1; Indeed the title is misleading, the water does not bring additional energy, it is just a more violent "instant" vaporization than a "progressive" vaporization as one would have expected. I suppose it is very beneficial to the homogenization of the air / fuel / water mixture.

This thesis brings something to the mechanisms of liquid water fragmentation in contact with a very hot medium (problematic of nuclear reactors in the event of an "incident").

There is probably a stage of fragmentation of the water mist in the reactor against the hot wall and another, near top dead center, against the cylinder head and or the fuel droplets.

But in the Gillier Pantone, almost all the water is already vaporized at the time of admission ...

I have already hypothesized that water does not arrive not only as vapor in the cylinder head.

https://www.econologie.com/forums/dopage-a-l ... 0-470.html


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by Remundo » 13/12/09, 15:49

Yes, absolutely Flytox,

an analogy between the expansion of water by vaporization on contact with hot walls.

In fact, we always revolve around 2 ideas:

1. calorie recovery, either in the cylinder or in the gases, inducing the expansion of water vapor, therefore a little additional mechanical work. From a thermodynamic point of view, it's a bit like a combined Diesel / Rankine or Otto / Rankine cycle,

2. chemical action water and / or its dissociated products (ions and radicals) during combustion.

Without a sophisticated engine test bench + hours of experimentation, it is difficult to quantify all of this, especially since the gain in power cannot be enormous. Let's say a range between 0 and 15%.

On the other hand, what has been noticed (correct me if I say nonsense) is the depollution of gases: less NOx, less CO, less HC. This is what makes me say personally that water has an obvious and rather beneficial action on the chemical kinetics of combustion.
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by Lietseu » 13/12/09, 16:11

I know it could make grandpa who head in the air, but it seems that no one has recorded my little remark ....

In foggy weather my motorcycles all "run" much better, if not the humidity in the air, what could it be?


Meow :P

Please check it out and tell me what you think about it: Company-and-philosophy / zeitgeist-j-accept-the-contract-to-a-better-future-t8934.html

THANK YOU !!! for her !
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