Wet combustion: explanations by Rémi Guillet

Water injection in thermal engines and the famous "pantone engine". General informations. Press clippings and videos. Understanding and scientific explanations on the injection of water into engines: ideas for assemblies, studies, physico-chemical analyzes.
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by Christophe » 09/06/09, 14:43

I know you are serious but I think you are exaggerating a bit :)
Last edited by Christophe the 12 / 08 / 09, 15: 14, 1 edited once.
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by Christophe » 26/06/09, 20:49

Capt_Maloche wrote:pity he did not do the same picture for the amount of particles and CO


Just ask!

Image

https://www.econologie.com/forums/combustion ... t7869.html

:P
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by Christophe » 12/08/09, 15:58

Here is another document by R. Guillet that should interest thermicians: calculation of the efficiency of a condensing boiler
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by Christophe » 15/03/12, 15:24

New document from the same author: https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... 9VRugx.pdf

Á about combustion and water ...

By Rémi Guillet (the 03 / 03 / 2012)


The price of fuels and other fuels having not finished "blazing", inducing the resumption of recurring debates (Cf. Wikipedia) such as that linked to a belief of some in a more or less mysterious effect of a "doping to l “water” (or other effect resulting from the installation on the engines or other burner of a more or less “opaque” device where the water would undergo “free” energy transformations, becoming itself fuel!) brings us back to three pieces of information that we think are essential about “combustion and water”, information from our thesis “Wet combustion and its performance” (thesis presented in 2002 at the University of Nancy 1 - Henri Poincaré - and directly accessible in full version using the email address http://www.scd.uhp-nancy.fr/docnum/SCD_ ... UILLET.pdf .

1- Water arriving in a zone where combustion is developing (in a thermal machine: internal or external combustion engine, boiler etc. - and whether this water is brought in vapor or liquid form, by the combustion air, by fuel, injected separately -) has every chance of improving the "quality" of combustion (of the fuel identified as such!). Being able to intervene on the atomization of droplets of a liquid fuel (heavy hydrocarbons) as well as on the multiple "intermediate" chemical reactions developed during combustion, this "additional" water allows in certain cases to "difficult" combustions to approach. more (if this is chemically possible), their completeness, thus rejecting less particles and other unburnt materials. In addition, and in all cases, the presence of additional water reduces the formation of NOx, because combustion approaching perfection, especially in the case of stoichiometry, is with this "thermal ballast" additional water comparatively "colder" therefore always less conducive to the formation of nitrogen oxides. (Cf. references indicated in the thesis already mentioned).

2- Thus, the presence of water in the combustion chamber of a thermal machine modifies the physico-chemical dynamics of combustion and if the water supply is controlled, this addition of water, alone, will be sufficient, via improved combustion, to justify the better performance recorded by said thermal machine: better mechanical efficiency for an engine, or even more "nominal" power, in particular for certain gas turbines ... And greater "ecological discretion"!
From our point of view, there is nothing else to invoke to "understand" what is happening with some engines "doped" by the addition of water. Therefore, starting from an engine which “burns” its fuel poorly, and therefore necessarily inefficient, the added water has every chance of improving combustion and therefore, concomitantly, of reducing the “consumption” of said engine. Obviously, the more the machine concerned is initially underperforming, the more the benefit linked to the introduction of additional water can be significant! (See the examples often taken from old diesel engines, two-stroke engines, etc.)
Conversely, nothing spectacular can be expected from an engine in good working order. Note that the quantity of water introduced must always be controlled and not exceed a certain threshold, otherwise it is possible to deviate from the desired effect, other pollution may then appear, in particular with the formation of CO ... (Without forget that water in large quantities suffocates or "extinguishes" the fire!).

3- Now, imagining a thermal machine initially exemplary from the point of view of combustion, it remains that water can allow the thermodynamicist to consider cycles (recovery, regenerative, combined etc.) which can greatly increase the mechanical efficiency of the system (by comparison with the traditional motor, in "open" cycle; see the thesis which largely presents these cycles).
On the other hand, coming back to combustion, another thing to remember. It is about the exploitation of the phase changes of the water resulting from the combustion. Thus its condensation (if it is actually carried out in an ad hoc recuperator) becomes a source of “ultimate” recovery of combustion energy. We are talking about condensing heat generators for “low temperature” heating installations (case of residential heating installations with oversized radiators, with underfloor heating, the temperature of which remains well below 60 ° C, etc.). But one also evokes the "water vapor pumps" which make it possible to widen the field of application of said condensing generators in the case of heaters at higher temperature, therefore above 60 ° C, that is to say the case of collective heaters. or other thermal installations in the tertiary sector, etc.). These latest water vapor pumps (or heat exchanger and mass in combustion products before discharge and combustion air) leading de facto to a form of “wet combustion” with its specific ecological virtues guaranteed (in particular that of low NOx, etc.). We can again refer to the often-cited thesis or to the book “From the hygrometric diagram of combustion to water vapor pumps”.
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by plasmanu » 18/03/12, 07:10

Only good news
It'll make you scream ...

Having walked full of forums there is an idea received which troubles me.
People are convinced that putting water (steam) in its engine means that water passes through the injector and that it breaks.
They stayed on the fuel of the moped or whatever
They never opened a car hood
Cars must be banned in India the monsoon lasts 6 months.
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by Christophe » 18/03/12, 07:53

What I say: lots of people would benefit from knowing, for their technical knowledge on water injection (and others), the econology site ...

: Cheesy:

ps: I made an article with the summary above https://www.econologie.com/combustion-et ... -4395.html
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by Christophe » 19/03/12, 22:29

Here is the summary of http://www.scd.uhp-nancy.fr/docnum/SCD_ ... UILLET.pdf which contains graphs, tables and very interesting things ...

Summary (long version)

For many years, water has been used as an additive to improve combustion, the power of machines, or even as an antiknock then, more recently, as an inert allowing the reduction of the formation of nitrogen oxides.

Today the challenge to be taken up concerns the economy of the scarce resource that is fossil energy and even more, the protection of the environment.

With the wet combustion, the performance of land based gas turbines can be enhanced very significantly Thus, steam injection cycles (STIG), regenerative cycles to humidified air (HAT), can approach the performance of the combined cycle.

For its part, the water vapor pump cycle which recycles the ultimate heat, sensitive and latent, usually discharged to the chimney, in the form of preheated and humidified combustion air, allows many processes to approach efficiency. maximum combustion of 100% of the higher calorific value of the fuel.

In all its forms, the introduction of water into the combustion chambers is also known to reduce the formation of NOx: direct injection, in emulsion with the fuel, in vapor form generated by a recuperator, a water vapor pump ...

Then, remarkable energy and ecological performances are possible, especially for the processes that value the recovery of latent heat. Among the processes most likely to benefit from the benefits of wet combustion are:
- condensing boilers;
- direct contact generators;
- live dryers with energy recovery;
- regenerative turbines in cogeneration;
- clean incineration processes with energy recovery.

In wet combustion, three fluids are introduced into the combustion chamber: fuel, combustion air and additional water ...
To analyze these processes, we have developed an analysis method using the wet temperature as the main parameter, called Combustion Hygrometric Diagram. This method, presented in detail as well as many diagrams which
are from, is recommended for:
- analysis, forecast, improvement, optimization of combustion yields;
- predictive control;
- forecasting of condensation;
- the design of two-phase exchangers.

But the method can also be used in the case of traditional processes such as boilers and condensing generators to offer perspectives of access to efficiency with more precision and at lower cost.

Other information on changes due to the presence of additional water in thermal combustion processes is also provided.

Key words: combustion / humidity / humidity / environment / efficiency / energy / thermal process / nitrogen oxides / protection
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by dedeleco » 19/03/12, 23:30

Thesis work at bac +40 at, potasser !!!
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by plasmanu » 20/03/12, 06:02

water power

dedeleco wrote:Thesis work at bac +40 at, potasser !!!


: Cheesy:
It must have been 58 years
57 skipping a class
59 transplanting

At work we suspect a new one to be 110 years old this is the only possible explanation
: Mrgreen:
Among other things, he has a 3 ton 4 * 4 motorhome with a 200l tank of diesel which consumes 8l / 100 ...
He had to successfully connect the water tank to the injector without it breaking : Cheesy:
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by Christophe » 20/03/12, 10:31

This makes this work all the more honorable!

There is a small CV of Remi Guillet at the end of the appendices ... for those who want to know his age : Cheesy:
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