Pantone simply!

[jean63]

Hello everybody

I would like to try to understand just the problems that arise in developing this system. I read a lot of posts and sites on the subject ...... what I remember (but I probably did not understand everything and this is the purpose of this question).
I am obviously speaking to those who test (Christophe, PITMIX, André, as .... gyr ??, etc ......)

1 - It seems to me that this system works well when installed on a tractor or on a lawn mower ......
Can we deduce that it works when the engine speed is constant (this is the case of a tractor that plows a field in large expanses of several tens or hundreds of hectares and also for a lawn mower in lower proportions) ?.

2 - If I understand correctly, again, I'm an observer at the moment, it seems that you have difficulty in determining the length and the type of steel in the reactor rod...... and that would surely be a function of the engine concerned (diesel or not, what power, what type of cooling -air or water- I think the 2CV6 test-, what temperature exhaust ... etc? ).

3 - Depending on this temperature, which bubbler to make, which mixture of liquid in this bubbler ? (I read pure water, or mixed with gasoline? or alcohol? ... I do not know exactly, in what proportions?). Doesn't this have an impact on the "vapor" produced (the term is incorrect but hey, I'll call it that) and especially the size of these famous droplets?

4 - How to optimize the absorption of these droplets by the engine? the REAL big concern is to manage to inject into the intake and as a function of all the known parameters at an instant t, the droplets obtained by "pantonization".

What I'm afraid of is that, on a car (given the variations in temperature, engine speed, etc ... that often vary, except when driving at constant speed on the highway) it is necessary (for the moment) to find the optimum solution for a given engine speed with a given outdoor temperature.

To make the system usable at all engine speeds and in all outside temperatures, it would be necessary to "invent" the electronic computer which could regulate the admission of these droplets according to the parameters (exhaust outlet temperature sensor, outside temperature sensor, sensor). . bubbler temp, depression at the inlet inlet, etc.).

Perhaps simpler would be to put at the vehicle's controls (dashboard) a switch which cuts off the supply of droplets in OFF mode (at idle for example) and which opens the valve in "motorway at constant speed" mode.

After the war 39-45 Peugeot had released the 203 which had on the dashboard a manual system that allowed to change the ignition advance (true of real) ...... they were precursors of the ignition electronic with calculator ....I'm joking.

Perhaps again, ignition timing is important for optimizing droplet absorption at engine speed?

Even if my questions are silly, I assume them and I wait for your lights, you who had tested the system, what do you think of my questions.

Thank you in advance for your experience.

[lau]

It is actually on tractors that there are the best results, but I reassure you, no need to be a big operator to save money with the pantone
It is true that on large engines the release of heat is very important it plays a significant role, then there is not a lot of regime changes as on cars.
The saving is therefore lower on the car, so it is the entire design of the reactor and all that may need to be reviewed to store as much heat as a farm machine.
This is the challenge that I started with a preparer and you will soon be informed at the end of my tests.

[jean63]

Thanks to you lau for your nice answer.

it feels good to be able to talk to guys like you.

A +.

[nicky66]

The saving is therefore lower on the car, so it is the entire design of the reactor and all that may need to be reviewed to store as much heat as a farm machine.
This is the challenge that I started with a preparer and you will soon be informed at the end of my tests.

I saw some protos (hi I'm new ) and the VERY poorly optimized air heat recovery:
a simple tube in a single exhaust manifold not only slows the exhaust by reducing the volume of the manifold, but how much energy is left at the outlet?

at first glance (because I'm new, if I say bullshit or something arch-rehashed tell me ) it would be necessary not to modify the tubing of origin to make pass a piece of pipe there, but to create a new part, in a word: a heat exchanger, which recovers the maximum of energy, one could surely obtain a cold or lukewarm exhaust with a well made system, copper with fins in the exhaust etc.

at the end we can possibly get one or 2 heating radiators for example four, and pass the exhaust in with a formwork, to start with something simple and fast?

[lau]

we are dealing with a specialist!

A member of forum told me that the reactor in the exhaust was slowing down just a bit of the top speed.
Another gar (Rezut) widened this zone of the pot to precisely not have this disadvantage, result: it will start again the assembly because the gases need to be concentrated.
his old montage: https://www.econologie.com/forums/citroen-bx ... t1372.html

jean, hum ... thanks for the compliment

[jean63]

lau .... is not enough.

This new one seems to me to have good ideas. Indeed, I have not yet fully understood the assembly of the reactor in the exhaust pipe, I have the same opinion as the speaker whose I forgot the nickname (apologies) on the fact that everything has been calculated by the manufacturer to optimize the diameter of the pipe as well as the curvature.
Besides, I think that people who do 2CV cross modify this output to give more power to the engine, and there is not much to scratch on a deuche; it's the only thing they have the right to change, and they get more power ...... just go see a 2CV Cross compet.
So, I also ask the question of the heat recup at this place, the solution of the radiators seems to me a good idea.

What happens to the operation of the catalytic converter that must operate at high temperatures ...... although we can say that if the "pantonisation" works buien, there is more need for catalytic converter? Is not it

[nicky66]

absolutely; this is the main interest of the pantone, to have a pure air exhaust, so no need to keep a catalytic converter that is effective only hot and contains hyper-polluting stuff that cause diseases such as chronic fatigue etc.
in addition it lowers the power of the engine: p

but a question I ask myself, if the people who felt a slight drop in power had as common point an exchange pipe in the original exhaust?
it would be very interesting if the reduction of the exhaust alone was responsible for this side effect, unless we already know that it comes from something else?

[Woodcutter]

A high performance car exhaust is optimized in its shape, and especially in the equilibrium of the lengths of the different ducts before the connection in a single pipe.
It allows to have a very good emptying of cylinders at high speed.
Now, if we go out of this frame to get into that of MrTouleMonde's car, the only really important thing is to not create back-pressure on the exhaust ...

Nicky, what are these?hyper-polluting stuff that causes illnesses such as chronic fatigue etc. "contained in the catalytic converters?

[Other]

Hello,
I want to remind you that the panton reactor is not a simple exchanger, if we wanted to make a heat exchanger we would proceed with a long concentric tube on the entire length of the car
The fact that a large part of the heat is absorbed in the reactor over a length of 20cm is something quite unusual, it is just a statement that more than half of the heat of the exhaust is gobbled in. the reactor, but this is only one of the reasons that tells us that it works, it happened to me to pass too much water, the absorption of temperature and even greater, but to the efficiency of the reactor decreases (or at least the gain in consumption) so we have to pass water in the reactor in the right proportion so that the exhaust temperature drops by approximately half, at this stage put more water that makes the opposite effect...

With regard to exhaust ducts granted and restrictions

Again, do not confuse maximum power and engine efficiency,

Do not mix (Torque) torque and power in an engine, it's something I know well on aircraft engines because I fit propellers on the engines, it always surprise a pilot when I tell him that a 100 CV engine
Continental is not strong enough to turn a propeller from an 90 Continental CV engine ... and still months of an 65 CV.

A motor has free exhaust of a wrong length of hose
can generate less power than a motor in which the silencer has been placed at the right distance for a certain speed ...

In our case what interests us is how much KW we get from an engine with 1 liter of fuel,
without regard to its engine capacity, or its power ..
Andre

[jean63]

Thank you André for your explanation at my low level of knowledge of the pantone system.

Your system works on which vehicle? which engine (gasoline or diesel?). I guess you've had to answer all these questions for a long time, but just tell me in what subject and what date approx. and I will go looking for your posts.

Re-thank you in advance for your availability in requests from various stakeholders at all levels, as well as to share your knowledge with everyone.