Pantone Article in Science and Life November 2007

Water injection in thermal engines and the famous "pantone engine". General informations. Press clippings and videos. Understanding and scientific explanations on the injection of water into engines: ideas for assemblies, studies, physico-chemical analyzes.
the middle
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by the middle » 07/11/07, 12:46

Hi Christopher,
I think you forgot to make the presentations to Mr. Grumberg.
Maybe you did it in private,
I am talking about the people who are very involved in the development of this system.
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by oliburn » 07/11/07, 12:51

I just wanted to say that the experience of others is (for
me) save time: 10 brains will always work better
and more than one. I am in charge of a team and if we worked individually, we would not progress.
you have to know how to respect what others have done (and use it) while being able to question all or part of a project.
any positive or negative experience advances the shmilblick
let's take advantage of it !!! : Cheesy:
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by Grumberg » 07/11/07, 13:04

If all the Pantonists of France had joined hands, they would have set up an association under the 1901 Law, given a few euros each, prepared a protocol (with Veritas style control) and rented a bench to finally have the verdict they are looking for as. The great drama of this whole affair is that everyone works in their own corner. To obtain the means to prove that water doping works, it is necessary that unity be strength. You are thousands, you can also find potential sponsors (ex-Anvar, local authorities, Regional Council, Engineering Schools like that of Douai ...): organize your file, support it with indisputable measures! Otherwise, your montages will remain DIY for insiders forever.

Without claiming to be a "connoisseur", which I am not, and while defending myself from having made mistakes in my article, I note that my colleagues in the auto press have never demonstrated a beneficial effect of Pantone mounts whatever they are. I don't believe in a conspiracy of silence: like I said, any of us would be too happy to step foot in it and say it works, that is, to sum it up, that 'this is achieved with a significant reduction in consumption and pollution without loss of performance, power, torque or the like.
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by the middle » 07/11/07, 13:08

This is how I would like this story to end : Cheesy:
Image
Image
Image
This little game between the bear and the dog lasted a week; at the beginning the photographer thought that the end of his dogs was near ...
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by Grumberg » 07/11/07, 14:18

What am I in there? The dog or the bear? :D
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by the middle » 07/11/07, 14:45

Grumberg wrote:What am I in there? The dog or the bear? :D

Ho! I hadn't thought of this possible question ...
Finally, both have red blood
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by MichelM » 07/11/07, 15:00

Bonjour à tous

Thank you to Mr Grumberg for participating, it's very good.
What bothers me is that the published article leaves a feeling of a process for sweet dreamers. Afterwards we can discuss here, give arguments, try to correct the situation, analyze the text, the damage is done. The common reader has made up his mind, S&V wrote an article on tests at an engineering school with a bench: the results are there, it is not convincing, there must be a clamping of the engine so c is a bit normal etc ...
Nothing it seems to me to counterbalance. I would have shown something else besides this example: other tests (those here), the consumption figures of municipal vehicles for example. And I will have concluded that it would be necessary to deepen the subject and that someone finally takes the trouble and the means to decide: effective or not this doping with water vapor?

I agree on one point our assemblies I do not call them "Pantone" but doping with water vapor (like Mr David?), It is not really the same thing and it can give a bad image not very credible to speak of Pantone.

As for our trials "each in our corner", they are very enriching because we SHARE by the forum ! And I find it good that we each do a little differently, we try several ways, techniques and we progress without depriving ourselves of experimenting with our solution.
AFTER having found a priori the best technique (for example: bubbler, steam generator, or injection, or water fuel, etc.) we can consider making an optimum assembly to test on bench.
Good but not knowing each other (only by the forum) it's difficult to ask for money to finance a project ...

And I can see (I have tried in my business) that it does not interest many people to improve the existing, that is to say the old or current engines to make them last longer, consume less and clean them up.
We trust the manufacturers to improve the characteristics (this is the answer I get). So for any improvement we do not upgrade we change by new. Normal is the consumer society.

For tests like those of André, I also had a 300TD automatic turbo (Break 123 series) like his, you can always ride nicely, bridle it etc. it is an old engine that lasts a very long time but to descend to 9 L / 100 km it is a feat that I have never been able to do (without doping!), so at 6 L it is impossible without major reason. ..
And if we drive in Break with a large load volume is that we can not do it with a small car!

No more discussions, I would like us to be able to do tests with a real lab and move forward, get our heads out of the water! But I don't feel that S&V has helped us in this direction.
Ah well there are the sailors who demonstrate and their fishing boat engines to improve, I bet it is the replacement by new engines that we will put forward!

Good luck to all, I'm a bit long ...

Michel
Last edited by MichelM the 07 / 11 / 07, 16: 36, 1 edited once.
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by pluesy » 07/11/07, 15:01

beautiful pictures...

these last 6 months I was caught up in another research and development and I no longer frequented the forum and I missed the episode of douai ...

until the science and life article puts my nose back in


Grumberg wrote:If you want the curves obtained by the students, I have them, of course. But the best is to ask them. Christophe is in contact with them, it should be possible to publish their report on this site (with the agreement of the Douai mining school, because it is an educational project).


I am satisfied : Cheesy: I found the curves Christophe put them there: https://www.econologie.com/projet-echo-m ... -3516.html

I just flew quickly and I saw it is true that there had been a lot of mistakes made and it is almost a miracle if they managed to have a result ...

if the second tour takes into account the remarks of the experts who are on the forum doing better shouldn't be too difficult :D
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by Grumberg » 07/11/07, 15:17

That's it. Everybody is happy. To those who accuse me of torpedoing doping with water in advance, I remind my own words:

"The system, in the form of water doping, can undoubtedly provide a gain, unfortunately difficult to assess in advance." (follows the experience of Matthiau Daullé, CA de l'Aisne). On a fairly old vehicle and with a rising diesel, the game can be worth the candle, on condition of accepting a performance sacrifice, even if little apparent in use "


Like a torpedo, admit that it's not very bad! What I just copied from my own duck, it describes pretty much what André himself said about his Mercedes, whose maximum speed has decreased (if I remember the post where he talks about it). Again, if the kit impact performance, it has no interest unless naturally the owner of an old vehicle agrees to reduce the perfs to lower its consumption (but in this case, it can also change car and benefit from a better depollution, for example: the particulate filter, that presents certain advantages).
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by Cuicui » 07/11/07, 16:45

If the maximum speed of a car doped with water decreases, it is not necessarily because there is a reduction in power. The reactor only works well under heavy load, not at maximum engine revolutions. It is possible that with a longer box allowing the engine and the reactor to give all their power with few revolutions, we would have found, or even exceeded the maximum speed (I often think of the Toftof tractor). But all of this remains to be tested. Maybe our budding engineers will do the job ...
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