Advice heating Pros: valid or not?

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dodo
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by dodo » 03/11/10, 21:42

dedeleco> not easy to climb on you when you are not used to it. in all in the roofs there is glass wool.
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by dodo » 03/11/10, 21:54

after having thought a lot and received a lot of art and seen that we can benefit from certain subsidies which make things more bearable.

so we will do the following work.

1 / remove the old glass wool, and replace it with cotton wool with a counter-joist to reach a height of 30 cm + an osb floor.

2 / the crawlers we are going to replace the 10 cm of lv by a new insulator probably the technique of cotton wool blown in thermobag or else wood fiber panels

3 / changed our wooden windows whose wood to work, and whose double glazing is a window glued one next to the other without air.
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by dodo » 07/11/10, 10:49

dodo wrote:2 / the crawlers we are going to replace the 10 cm of lv by a new insulator probably the technique of cotton wool blown in thermobag or else wood fiber panels


there is just on this point that I wonder if it is very judicious to remove the 10 cm of LV, to put back 10 cm of a new insulator, except to put EPS

I am wondering if it is not better to do it from the inside to increase the size of the insulation, but for that it is necessary to break the ba13 and the parts in paneling.
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by Obamot » 07/11/10, 11:11

Whatever solution is chosen, the important thing is:
- to protect the insulation from humidity (vapor / condensation barrier, rain projection). Breathing must be left where it should be.
- make absolutely sure that the insulation is hermetic in its function (otherwise it is not ... isolated). This is the major problem with the EP! It can move, it can settle if the building moves, they can also be a victim of putrefaction, the passage of rodents which dismantles it to clear a path, etc ...

So for the LV, I will examine the state, and if it is not destructured, I would simply fill what there is to fill. I would only remove it if there is no other way (we do not know the danger of this material, some medical circles declare it almost as dangerous as asbestos ...). And why not insulate over it leaving it in place after repairing the areas that are possibly damaged !? It would constitute an insulating layer and above all a significant protection of the new insulation. If there is room of course ...
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dodo
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by dodo » 07/11/10, 11:23

Obamot wrote:Whatever solution is chosen, the important thing is:
- to protect the insulation from humidity (vapor / condensation barrier, rain projection). Breathing must be left where it should be.
- make absolutely sure that the insulation is hermetic in its function (otherwise it is not ... isolated). This is the major problem with the EP! It can move, it can settle if the building moves, they can also be a victim of putrefaction, the passage of rodents which dismantles it to clear a path, etc ...

So for the LV, I will examine the state, and if it is not destructured, I would simply fill what there is to fill. I would only remove it if there is no other way (we do not know the danger of this material, some medical circles declare it almost as dangerous as asbestos ...). And why not insulate over it leaving it in place after repairing the areas that are possibly damaged !? It would constitute an insulating layer and above all a significant protection of the new insulation. If there is room of course ...



isolate over that is to say.
I would have to take a ladder and I remove a tile to see the state of the glass wool to see if it is not packed since no craftsman does it.
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dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 07/11/10, 14:15

I would have to take a ladder and I remove a tile to see the state of the glass wool to see if it is not packed since no craftsman does it


Heck, finally what to do before deciding and spending a lot !!

Buy in addition to the ladder, a roofer's ladder (wooden attached flat on the tiles to climb on the roof without breaking them, up to the top with a harness around the belly to tie you, what roofers never wear, wrongly !!!! but what the pruners wear) and look at the condition of the roof (invisible felting tile that wets glass wool like I had !!) and below the tiles in different places look at the defects and the condition of the glass wool !!

A craftsman making a quote without testing the condition of the glass wool under the roof is not serious and closer to a 'scammer !!

Having no moisture in the insulation is essential and not easy !!
Any fault putting moisture in the new insulation amounts to having to pay an insulation for absolutely nothing !!!!
The pseudo pros don't care if the client doesn't realize it !! They are looking for well paid work whatever the errors !!

Moisture under a roof has two sources:
1) roof leak: faded tile almost invisible often or dirt improperly placed between tiles or improperly wedged tiles that pass water below, little water is enough to wet without realizing it and destroy the insulation!
2) condensation, even more difficult to discover, especially in good warm weather !!
Any indoor hot air leaks towards under the roof condenses under cold tiles and falling drops, wet all the glass wool on m2, especially in cold weather (not at other times) !!
So sealing is essential: from the plasterboard, the vaporizer and the rest with respect to the interior air towards the roof and it is difficult to ensure and to test and never performed on houses over 10 years old !!
If the pseudo pro has not told you about it, there is a problem !!

For me, it is easier to look for yourself and plug the leaking holes and cracks towards the roof, then put glass wool back where it has settled or damaged.
Finally rats, dormice and mice are totally unavoidable and they love wool insulation to make their nest !!

Glass wool much less fine (micron) than asbestos (nano) is therefore less dangerous with long gloves and mask and goggles (irritable skin and eyes).

Personally I no longer trust most of the pros after my 7-year trial, from the architect to the lawyer and the experts !!
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by dodo » 10/11/10, 07:58

in this case there are more pros because no one has taken the step to check the condition of the glass wool.

I made the remark to a craftsman and he must iron to check.
given my health concerns I see myself getting on the wrong, I am forced to do that by a pro, or then broke my ba13 and do it again inside by passing the 10 cm to 20cm.
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by dedeleco » 10/11/10, 11:57

considering my health concerns

You do not have someone more alert in your family who could help you at least to identify the problems on the roof (a few hours and more certainty on the reality than with an uncontrolled craftsman ??

Breaking the drywall also seems difficult with more work.
More simply, measure the temperature against the ba13 in cold weather should indicate the problem points (thermometer pressed on Ba13 and bulb slightly isolated from the outside air).

Climbing a ladder is not difficult if you do be careful, wedge it well, secure the top of the ladder with another person. We can also tie up by climbing the ladder or a rope along the ladder, for safety, what I always do to cut branches with a saw at the top of a large tree (not with a chainsaw, far too dangerous on a ladder, even for a pro, a tiny second of inattention and we cut the rope or something, etc ...!).
It all depends on your level of mobility, but, if not totally disabled, with care and attention, we can do with more security than young people who are too fast and sure of themselves, without attention, who sometimes have more accidents than the older ones.

I am not sure that the glass wool on your roof is the cause of the problems and spending a lot on it may not be the best ??????
Often, we redo this type of insulation coupled with the change of the roof, as did some of my neighbors (€ 20000 and again with a little more glass wool and a porous insulating film under the roof decreasing in principle condensation and leakage problems).

Look from the inside if there are no vents or hot air outlets to the roof and the tiles, because then the condensation wets the tiles, then the glass wool (new as well as old), which tumbles the insulation, and stopping or fixing these outputs is effective.

Otherwise, even without insulating better, you will save a lot more with a wood stove with large logs, even simple, simply installed on the current chimney even if you want to set 2 temperature safety devices with alarm on the chimney entry and between the bushel and the beam at the top of the fireplace. (less work than ba13)
Like this you will be sure not to take risks, with a chimney which cannot heat without knowing it immediately and stop the stove.
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by dodo » 10/11/10, 13:27

dedeleco wrote:
considering my health concerns

You do not have someone more alert in your family who could help you at least to identify the problems on the roof (a few hours and more certainty on the reality than with an uncontrolled craftsman ??


I will try to climb.

dedeleco wrote:Breaking the drywall also seems difficult with more work.
More simply, measure the temperature against the ba13 in cold weather should indicate the problem points (thermometer pressed on Ba13 and bulb slightly isolated from the outside air).


I know it's stupid to break partitions in good condition, but good with 10 cm of insulation I can not hope for good insulation.

the only material which gives a correct R with 10cm is Polyurethane but it is not ecological and the phase shift will not be great.

dedeleco wrote:
Look from the inside if there are no vents or hot air outlets to the roof and the tiles, because then the condensation wets the tiles, then the glass wool (new as well as old), which tumbles the insulation, and stopping or fixing these outputs is effective.


precisely I saw 2 days ago at the level of the beams which go up.
by putting my hand you can feel glass wool.

dedeleco wrote:Otherwise, even without insulating better, you will save a lot more with a wood stove with large logs, even simple, simply installed on the current chimney even if you want to set 2 temperature safety devices with alarm on the chimney entry and between the bushel and the beam at the top of the fireplace. (less work than ba13)
Like this you will be sure not to take risks, with a chimney which cannot heat without knowing it immediately and stop the stove.


I think I will take the risk and try it and I will see from the side of the alarm thermometers.
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by dedeleco » 10/11/10, 15:34

but good with 10 cm of insulation I can not hope for good insulation.


It's not bad at all, when others with slightly older houses have only 2cm or nothing in the walls !!!
Houses or apartments that sell very expensive nevertheless !!
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