Pac or gas condensation?

[Christophe]

Ben 20 000 € it's still usually a pac water / soil - water ...

Pac air-air at this price is just the scam, even for a complete house ...

With the ladle, counting 3000 € for 2 or 3 splits outside and 2000 € for 4 with 6 splits inside (1 for 2 rooms if house well conceived) = 5000-6000 € it is a big max and I aim already high! !

Price material TTC but not posed.

[gisier]

Hello, I came across this link which semnmble a good compromise concerning my interrogation.

I remember that I am especially attentive to the cost + ammortization of my future heating and hot water installation.


It looks really surprising as savings to achieve; I speak in the case of a condensing boiler + solar water heater.

Does a gas boiler cost so much for hot water?

Confirm that it is a real economy to install a solar water heater knowing that I risk 90% to install a gas condensing boiler and that thanks to a balloon it could produce too?

and finally, would you have approximate prices for the installation of a solar water heater for 4people?

Thank you in advance for your answers.

http://www.climamaison.com/chauffage-so ... hp?Doss=31

[gisier]

for what is surprising I speak 792 euros savings / year.

[gisier]

finally in my case (new installation) it would amount to about 700 euros per year because I have no old installation, between condensing boiler for heating + ecs and condensing boiler for the whole.
What do you think?

[scince]

Hello, in view of what you say, I would also look for a gas condensing boiler with low temperature heating floor, and if in addition you pair with individual solar water heater, bein is tip top in my opinion

Confirm that it is a real economy to install a solar water heater knowing that I risk 90% to install a gas condensing boiler and that thanks to a balloon it could produce too?

Exactly a CESI always need a booster, electric or hydraulic, in this case there would be hydraulic booster made by your boiler, the boiler balloon will actually be replaced by the preparer CESI

On the other hand, an insulation with an R = 5 on the ceiling I do not find it "huge" we no longer revolve around 6 or even 7, right?

[gisier]

Well, I had the answers to my questions. I still have to see the prices of a cesi and the aesthetic side too, because it is also to take into account ..

for the ceiling r = 5 with 200mm of rockwool, right?
classic what?

[scince]

classic ouaip but for "super insulation" you can type within 30 cm and go to an R of 7? for 100 m² that's 10 more bags

Edit

For the aesthetic side, if you have a roof tile, the terreal system is not too bad http://www.terrealsolaire.com/solaire/o ... esthetique

[dedeleco]

Your link :
http://www.climamaison.com/chauffage-so ... hp?Doss=31

Pavilion of 4 people, surface 150 m² built in 1980, heated by a gas boiler with radiators. Annual consumption: 4 000 mm³ of gas is 1 760 € TTC ...........

It is the solar system that provides domestic hot water but also the hot water of a heating system. This is preferably low temperature, like the heated floor. The realized saving is between 20% and 40%
Current consumption 1 760 €
Consumption solution modernization 968 €
savings = 792 €
.

You must have the "heated floor" already installed to use the low temperatures of solar heating in winter !!
Prices are 2006 !! Which region, rather close to the Alps, sun and not too cold?
No precision on the surface of solar collectors 2m2 or 4m2, the maxi is the best? their nature, and characteristics, nor the storage volume needed in 1000litres and not 100? ???
The price of labor is forgotten !! double to triple with low temperature heating floor. ???
The economy is for a 1980 house not strongly isolated, with thermal bridges, almost impossible to improve.
Your case much better:

our project of timber frame house with cladding

By insulating strongly, from the beginning, the economy can be much stronger than on home 1980.
The best is to isolate to the max, 30cm, without thermal bridges, nor air leaks, with VMC double flow, and to need the least possible heating, with a chimney provided for a stove if necessary, (against a future explosion of fossil fuel prices), solar thermal to max and auxiliary heating practical and almost useless, gas or PAC, but then the economy can be very strong reducing fossil heating expenses .
The condensation on a boiler saves only 20% 'chimney special, 2fois more expensive) and the max insulation makes 400 gain at 500% (ratio of the insulation thicknesses in 1980 one had 5cm at best (in 1974, that 2cm , personal case) and so 30cm gives 6 times more, ie 600% !!)
So we can settle for a cheap gas boiler, without condensation but put the package in insulation and solar, to almost never need this boiler.
The dream is to store the solar heat of the summer underground (2 3m deep) to recover the winter removing all fossil heating!

Read the informative fiabitat site completely:
http://www.fiabitat.com/
BIOCLIMATIC CONSTRUCTION AND BIOCLIMATISM
http://www.fiabitat.com/construction-ma ... atisme.php
http://www.fiabitat.com/accompagnement-passif.php
mistakes to avoid:
ftp://downloads.fiabitat.com/yhdgztrk/d ... errors.pdf
On a new house, investment for 50ans, even a life, it is perfectly justified to think and invest the optimum!
Fiabitat refuses to renovate the 1970 houses to 1990, poorly designed, unsuitable and rebuilding for valid insulation !!!
So take advantage of building a house for the future and the end of fossil fuels, investing a little more, to reduce to almost nothing the heating expenses.
Your home will resell much better while the new current homes, often designed with 2005 standards, very inadequate and becoming unconventional!

your project of timber frame house with cladding

[scince]

I generally agree with you dedeleco, except that I would opt for a gas condensing boiler rather than a low temperature, even if it is more expensive.
And concerning the chimneys, for my part it seems to me that the vertical suction cups for condensing boilers are not more expensive, on the contrary they are less expensive (remains to tune our violins to agree ;-)

[dedeleco]

But, you must have, in addition, a real fireplace, because in case of long power outage, disaster, storm, more gas, more electricity, etc. we are happy to be able to heat with wood in a stove or a primary chimney, instead of being cold .
Otherwise we sometimes wait days or weeks, my case end 1999 secondary residence, 800m of electric cables to repair !!
Our modern technology is not infallible, we forget it too !!